neadods | (no subject)

This started out as a comment to

starcat_jewel and turned into a rant, so I'll take it here.

*sigh* As a former Heinlein fan, I now think that 12-year-old women who read and love his books should be given interventions. Ole Lazarus is a sanctimonious snot, and most of the items on his list are pointless - and as she points out, don't even cover survival skills actually required for daily living in modern society.

Change a diaper. I know how. This does not, however, make me overlook the fact that Heinlein thought that women were supposed to just LIVE to make the babies. I don't. As human being who is making her own choices in this world, I refuse. Possession of a uterus != maternal instincts.

Plan an invasion. Why? Who am I invading? For what purposes? Why am I the only one who has to do it? I agree with Starcat, it's more useful to know how to repel attack. Invaders put themselves in unsafe positions through the mere act. I'm not stupid, I'm not expendable, and I'm not going, Robert.

Butcher a hog What the fuck for? I'm dead serious here. I've seen a live hog, I think *once* in my life. If I'm ever hungry enough to have to hunt one of those buggers down and beat it to death, THEN I'll figure out how to butcher it. Until then, I can't imagine why I'd have to know dick-all about hogs. They don't live in my neighborhood.

Conn a ship Both Firecat and Starcat told Robert to tuck it back in his pants for this one, and I'll third that. What kind of ship anyway, Bobby? Kayak, Baltimore Clipper, or nuclear submarine, and when the hell am I going to get into any of them living inland as I do?\

Design a building Sing it with me - what the fuck for? The aforementioned Cats point out that "build a shelter" well, that's useful. And I do know how to do that; I've sewn a bloody tent. (Really. There are witnesses.) Stood for about 3 years until a storm exposed a fatal design flaw. If I had to, I could remake it, sans flaw, in one weekend of very hard labor. Fred Phelps will plant a big wet one on Rosie O'Donnell before I'm going to actually need to design a building.

Write a sonnet Like any other pubescent girl, I churned out lots of poetry, some of which I think may have counted as a sonnet. Have not noticed that my life is any better whatsoever for it. The point, Robert, and do I get to critique your poetic efforts?

Balance accounts For the first time, something useful, a mere 7 items down a really poncy list. Even a broken clock, eh, Bobby?

Build a wall I actually know how to do this; I wrote an article on building a dry stone fence once. And y'know what? Never in the 25 years since I wrote the article has anyone, including me, needed to build a dry stone wall.

Set a bone Know this one too. Pray I don't need to ever use it.

Comfort the dying This is one of the ones where I'd love to see him practice what he preached. However, having just been in the position to have to write an "I'm sorry you're dying" letter on the same day that I find that I now have to write an "I'm sorry your mother is dying" letter, I will say that this is a skill that ought to be taught. Which it isn't. Much like abstinence education for sex, this doesn't stop people from dying, just means there are a lot of people who are ignorant about what to do about it.

Take orders and give orders Starcat argues that knowing which to do at any situation is best, and I'll second that. However, yes. It is important to know how to (and when) to take or give an order. It's also important to know how to get consensus, Robert. Might be a little girly for you, but a damned powerful means of leading. Last time I looked men were even able to do that without their dicks falling off.

Cooperate and act alone Ditto, right to the attached rant about how terribly important it would be to know how to get someone to cooperate WITH YOU, something that Lazarus, in his superiority, doesn't think of.

Solve equations I should think that "do basic math" would be far more important here.

Analyze a new problem Starcat hits this one right on the head. Analysis is fun and all, but if you don't know how to SOLVE the bugger, you're up a pirana filled creek without a paddle.

Pitch manure Know how. Haven't needed to do it in 20+ years. Haven't noticed a significant difference in my life either way.

Cook a tasty meal Baby steps, Bobby. It's far more important to know how to cook AT ALL than it is to be Julia Child.

Fight efficiently Probably don't know this one. Robert might be surprised to learn that I don't consider myself defenceless. I know how to set boundaries, I know how to freak people out, I know how to run/deflect attention, and I know how to break joints backwards... but a judicious use of the first two has prevented me from ever needing the third.

Die gallantly Why? I'm serious, why? Who the hell cares? If someone's fucking killing me, I don't give a shit if they later raise a glass and say "She died gallantly." I'd rather that they later tell the intensive care nurse "Shit, I didn't know she was that crazy. No fuckin' way I'm going back there to finish the job, I don't think she was kidding when she said she'd eat my eyeballs."

So in short? What. Ever. Robert.

I may need to get a loaner copy of the History of English, because I'm totally in love with this thing. *pets copy.* For those who are interested, the supplementary material for Part 2, so far, are:

Lecture #13: The Return of English as a Standard
Caxton, prologue to Eneydos
Lecture #16: The Shape of Modern English
Shakespeare, Henry IV (Act 2, Scene 4)
Lecture #18: The Language of Shakespeare - Drama, Grammar, and Pronunciation
King Lear (Act 2, scene 2)
Richard III (Act 1, scene 2)
Lecture #19: The Language of Shakespeare- Poetry, Sound, and Sense
Hamlet (Act 3, scene 1)
Sonnet 87
Lecture #20: The Bible in English
King James Version
Old English Version
Wycliffe Version
Tyndale Version

Have not yet had the Bible lecture, I read ahead in the course notes. Anyone know where I can get the Old English, Wycliffe, and Tyndale online?

Threaded | Flat

Wycliffe version: http://wesley.nnu.edu/biblical_studies/wycliffe/wycbible.zip

*smooch* I knew I liked you for a reason! I get rather pissed at the Heinlein-worshippers myself, but I was trying to handle that one more-or-less straight. You said a lot of what I didn't.

I've never read Heinlein, but I'm sort of amazed now that he could possibly raise that sort of ire to an innocuous quote. I'd always had an impression of his writing as fairly bland.

I'm loving all the responses to this meme, serious, worshipful, and ranty.

*sigh* As a former Heinlein fan, I now think that 12-year-old women who read and love his books should be given interventions. Ole Lazarus is a sanctimonious snot, and most of the items on his list are pointless - and as she points out, don't even cover survival skills actually required for daily living in modern society.

Kinda have to agree. I loved his books as a teenager, but as an adult woman, I now find his image of women sets my teeth on edge. Yes, he himself was multi-talented. So was his engineer wife. What always makes me laugh was the fact that they didn't have kids-- so any opinions on child-raising he utters are automatically suspect to me. There is a world of difference between what I do as an aunt for my sibs' kids, and what those sibs have to do everyday. RLH was full of it.

Ahem. Anyway. The list is "self-consciously" feminist in places, as someone pointed out on Starcat's lj. Heinlein doesn't age well. He had the bias of his generation, but was trying to overcome it, and that makes for some *weird* disjunctions, sometimes.

Lazarus Long was always my least favorite character. Honestly. And the obsession with immortality was just... gah. Unhealthy. But some of the writing was damn cool, and has stuck with me. As far as action-writing goes, he really did have talent.

Not included in your list of Bible versions, but the Coverdale version of the psalms (only slightly modified from Tyndale, I'm told) is in the 1922 Episcopal Church Book of Common Prayer, if you find one at a secondhand bookstore.

I won't argue Lazarus's priorities, except to say they're his, and perhaps not also Heinlein's. I do, however, like the idea of starting with a dead mule and ending up with both a saddle and dinner; it provides for both creativity and initiative, since he doesn't specify what kind of saddle or what else is for dinner. 'Time Enough for Love' has stayed with me for 30 years because of its structure, because of its minor characters, and because it created a unique world I could step into when I desperately needed one.

I like this. I read so much Heinlein when I was a kid, then I grew up and stopped. He's fun for a while but awfully repetitive.

He wore his politics and mores on his sleeves. :D