We have that in America too, y'know

[neadods]

I have strong opinions about the Scottish Referendum today, although I've kept my mouth shut in the sure knowledge that nobody in a position to be personally affected gives a damn what Jane Q. American thinks. (Secession is not as academic a concept as you'd think over here; 140-odd years after the Civil War, we've still got states threatening to secede. You could set your watch by how often Texas brings it up.)

So, I'm watching the news today, specifically the Telegraph's liveblog, and I just hit a quote that made my jaw drop:

Moira Love, a 49-year-old mobile hairdresser, has never voted in an election before. But she is voting Yes because “Scotland is one of the wealthiest countries in the world – and yet we’ve got food banks”.

First off, yay for you Moira. Honestly. Voting is a powerful, important tool as well as a right.

But second... America's also one of the wealthiest countries in the world, and we've got food banks all the hell over. Seriously, everywhere. Government ones, private charity ones, church soup kitchens, from sea to shining sea. With our independence, with total control of our natural resources, with our vast wealth as a nation We. Have. Got. Food. Banks.

If Texas ever actually puts its citizenry where its mouth is and reestablishes itself as an independent nation, y'know what it's going to have?

Oil.

Cattle.

And food banks.

Comments

[shaggydogstail.livejournal.com]

Yeah, no-one in Scotland is going to be a tiny bit suprised that America's got Food Banks. The US isn't a role model for an independent Scotland, the drive with which is largely fuelled for a desire to get out from under Tory governments that get nearly all their MPs from England. If the food banks comment made your jaw drop... I'm really not sure what you think the debate about Scottish independence is about, because creating a more equal society has always been right at the heart of it.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

I'm really not sure what you think the debate about Scottish independence is about

From what I've read, the yes vote is about:
- complete control of natural resources (specifically oil wealth)
- complete control of governance instead of an England-tilted Parliament
- lower taxes/no austerity because no money will be going to bail out the debt of England
and more along those lines; gain complete fiscal/political control within its own borders against a theoretically combination government that in practice does not practice what is most important to the people within said border, instead imposing unwanted and likely unnecessary strictures on the populace of the border.

Absolutely none of which is remotely unfamiliar to America, considering that Texas cites those exact reasons to threaten secession on a semi-annual basis.

The countries I've seen cited in the British press as examples of what an independent Scotland could become seem to tilt towards Norway and Denmark.

Both of which are members of the European Federation of Food Banks.

And that is why my jaw dropped. Because I do not see any concrete connection between leaving the UK and eliminating food banks, as Moira implies.

[shaggydogstail.livejournal.com]

I'm sure you must be aware that Texas and Scotland are pretty much polar opposites when it comes to politics. Control of oil resources matters to the independence campaign because Scottish people want that money spent in the (relatively) poor people in Scotland, which relates to the elimination of food banks. Control of goverance matters because successive Tory governments have broadened the gap between rich and poor at a rate only bettered by the US, despite the people of Scotland consitantly returnimg one or no Tory MPs, preferring instead to vote for parties that favour more social equality, which relates to the elimiation of food banks. I've no idea where you get the debt argument from, because Scotland would take on a share of the national debt in the even of independence - it would, however, be unlikely to deal with this by continuing this the Coalition's austerity measures because those austerity measure have lead to a huge uptake in food bank usage.

When we talk about food banks it's not just about the food banks themselves, it's about the grotesque social injustices that make them necessary. Those injustices are perpetrated by parties that Scottish people do not vote for, but have been powerless to stop prevent forming governments. There are some independence campaigners who are all about Scotttish Nationalism for Nationalism's sake, but the cause would never have got off the ground without pragmatic independence campaigners who feel that Scotland cannot have government that reflects Scottish people's socialism/social democracy whilst attached to England and it's Conservatives.

Most EU countries have at least a few food banks, but the UK and Germany are the ones with massive increases in their numbers since the recession, both wealthy countries with right-wing governments. The Nordic nations aren't socialist paradises, of course they're not and neither would Scotland be, but they do have more just systems.

I'm not even in favour of independence, but I do respect the motivation behind the campaign. It's not like Texas. It is about food banks.

[shaggydogstail.livejournal.com]

Lol, please pretend their aren't about a million SPaG errors above, it's way past my bedtime!

[wendymr.livejournal.com]

If LJ allowed likes, I would be liking the hell out of this comment :)

[legionseagle (from livejournal.com)]

Yes, well, I don't suppose Texas ever regularly returned a Communist elected representative, as Glasgow used to do. Although Alex Salmond has ties to some fairly right-wing economically hardline types, the fight in the heartlands has been based on promises that independence will bring a decisive leftwards swing (and by leftward, contrary to the opinion of idiot-features in the Atlantic, I do not mean centre-left by US standards, I mean left by Scottish standards.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

I wish the US had a true left. We need it badly.

[legionseagle (from livejournal.com)]

To be absolutely honest, after reading this ("How dare you have a democratic process based on an 85% voter turnout and a 97% voter registration when terrorism's so much more picturesque?") as the last straw on top of a pile of other manure, I've not got the energy for discussing this with anyone from the US at the moment.

[redpanda13.livejournal.com]

Don't know which has the better referendum live coverage, but you might feel more at home here:

http://www.theguardian.com/us

I have a feeling that Yes surged a few days ago because people suddenly thought it might be possible, but second thoughts on "What exactly happens if we do?" shifted some of those back into the No camp. Still, they're likely to get some goodies from a nervous Westminster.

It's been mentioned that if Yes succeeds, what's left of Britain will take a right turn, since many of the lefty votes come from Scotland.

One report, unless I misread, said that turnout was around 90%. Wish we could get anywhere near that. The GOP knows that the fewer people vote, the better for them, which is why they keep making voting harder.

[penfold-x.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I was a bit puzzled by that quote, too. There are food banks throughout Europe. I'm guessing the woman was simply using it as a stand-in for the idea of a more generous government safety net, which I understand to be one of the main drivers behind many of the Yes voters. (Not sure why government food aid is more virtuous than private food aid, but that's not the point.)

[legionseagle (from livejournal.com)]

Because food security and an overall benefits safety-net (income support, housing support, child support, fully funded public NHS, disability support, free school meals, free or heavily subsidised university tuition fees and so on) is a proper concern of Government not of private charity, which always comes with strings and is patchy.

[paratti.livejournal.com]

Food banks are a pretty recent development here. Before the cuts we had enough of a welfare state that they were not needed.

[wendymr.livejournal.com]

Had I been Scottish, I think I would have been very torn - it's such a heart versus head decision. The way Scotland was treated under the Thatcher government is nothing short of shameless.

Now that the results are in, though, I'm watching to see whether the devolution promises are kept, and what happens with the other regions. Sounds as if a truly federal model has been rejected, for now anyway.

If you're interested in some humour, check out 'Lady Alba' and her Bad Romance parody - hilarious! Subtitles available, as well as full written lyrics in the creator's post underneath the video, if the Scots accent is too much for you.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

The devolution promises had better be kept or there will be trouble. There SHOULD be trouble.

I hardly have a problem with the idea of independence, considering where I'm from. But I really, REALLY hope that there was more nuanced discussion of economic plans than were filtering across the pond, because what I was reading looked like a panto scene:

"We're going to use the pound!"
"Oh no, you won't!"
"Oh yes, we will!"

Every time I saw that "We'll use the pound!" declaration I thought of the British pound notes that I have. That I use as bookmarks. Because they, like the Canadian penny and the Deutschmark I have, no longer have value as currency.

[raqs.livejournal.com]

Having food banks is nothing to be ashamed of. NEEDING food banks is a problem.

Over here the instance of hunger and food insecurity (which is a terrible phrase that masks "people don't know where their next meal will be coming from") has dropped. A little. Yay. It barely makes the news.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Do not even start me on the phrase "food insecurity." Call it what it is - HUNGER. Using a euphemism makes it too easy to ignore -- or sneer at if you're on Fox News.

[calapine.livejournal.com]

The number of British ppl dependent on food banks was negligible before the current Tory govt. I'd certianly have hoped that in an independent Scotland our welfare services would have been sensible enough to ensure that was the case once again.