Liveblogging The Dr. Who Finale

[neadods]

ZOMG, it's not even the opening credits and I'm squeeing fit to knock bats out of the sky. *gives big squishy hugs to all the Doctors*

Strax likes boozing and beating up people Glasgow. I'm amused as heck, but at the same time, I wonder how many people are going to be yelling online that Moffat is racist against Scots.

This conference call fascinates me. Oh, hello, River, it's so... conflicting... to see you. I adore you, but your story's over.

Do these villains make anyone else think of Buffy and "Hush"? Although the poetry is going to be stuck in my head forever (right next to "Find the key that fits the door/that leads out to the dancing floor/then escape the dancing beat/or you'll forever tap your feet")

If Jenny stays permanently dead, I'm going to be furious! How can there be the Vashtra and Jenny show if Jenny's dead?

Wait, the Doctor knows how he's going to die? Bwa? Doesn't that make everything else that happens to him moot because his death is a fixed point in time?

Good. Strax was, after all, a nurse at one point.

The slaughterer of the 10 Billion? Well, point there. The Doctor has killed a hella lot of people.

Well, for all the people who were upset that River was left in the Library, she doesn't seem to upset about it. Or stuck in it, for that matter.

Valeyard? AAAAARRRRGH, now the old guard is going to be going on and on about how the new show has to be limited to the old plot points. Again.

What idiot at BBCA thought that airing an interview segment with a plot spoiler before it happened in the show was a good idea?

I so love Strax. Pretty please, can the actor come to ChicagoTARDIS?

So... River shows up to give away the name so that the name isn't given away? It seems a major waste of both her and the Big Eponymous Plot Point.

The Doctor's scar tissue in the Universe should be a LOT bigger. A WHOLE LOT bigger.

And the Whispers just... go? That's it? What a lame waste of a potentially interesting villain.

Why is Vashtra not reverting to anything?

So this is the secret behind Clara. I'm kind of "meh" about it, to be honest. I'd rather the reason she be scattered in time be a little less Mary Sue-ish.

Oh, heck. Look, I really like River Song, but I AM SO OVER THE DOCTOR BEING IN LOVE WITH COMPANIONS! It was a bad idea with Rose, and it was a worse idea to make River the new Rose in terms of boomeranging back and The One He Wuvs The Very Mostest Of Them All. (Even if Alex's smutty way of saying "Spoilers!" can still make me smile.)

Dafuq? That damned leaf. Should she also click her heels together and say "There's no place like home"?

OH, FUCKING VALEYARD! Why didn't that dumbass concept die back in the rest of old Sixie's failed era?

To be continued in November? FAIL!

What a waste of an interesting but ultimately not convincingly connected series of concepts.

Oh, buggery fuck. He's not the valeyard, the Internet tells me, he's Nine. Which is going to poison my looking back at my favorite Doctor, it really is. I get that Eccleston has only bad memories of the show, but why do such a clunky recast? You like a writing challenge, Moffat, work around it, don't screw it up!

Comments

[redaxe.livejournal.com]

Didn't we see one of those villains as The Trickster (who claimed to be an enemy of The Doctor) in The Sarah Jane Adventures, several times? Or is that just a superficial resemblance? If it is, doesn't he have that send-someone-back-to-remake-a-choice power? Why not use that here, with one or more of The Doctor's team?

I see no reason not to accept the existence of and the direction toward the Valeyard. In fact, I've been thinking that's what Moffatt was aiming at for a while (and RTD before him), with the Doctor's darkness coming out.

Madame Vastra spin-off, pretty please with Strax on top?

[neadods.livejournal.com]

We know that the Fear Lord or Dream Lord or whoever that was was supposed to be an incarnation/aspect of the Doctor - Matt Smith more or less directly said so in that episode.

In fact, I've been thinking that's what Moffatt was aiming at for a while (and RTD before him), with the Doctor's darkness coming out

Then I just lot a crapload of respect for both of them (and RTD couldn't stand to lose much more of mine.)

It makes no sense to limit a show in the 2000s to plot points created decades ago! None whatsoever. I've also seen people touting "well, if there's someone between 8 and 9, that makes Matt 12 and thus there are no more regenerations! Because the BBC is totes going to to fold their tentpole show because the writers want to respect a limit created 30 years ago.

Gaahhhh... I'm dumping on you because I haven't gotten the outrage all out yet. Sorry. But it really does boil down to already having had a bellyful since 2005 of old school fans insisting that it makes creative and business sense to stick to every single detail from the entire run of the show.

[redaxe.livejournal.com]

I understand that you're upset with fans insisting on canon, Canon, CANON! Please note that I don't, or at least, not every single detail; there are plenty that have been wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey-ed out of existence, and improved the show. However, The Valeyard and Trial of a Timelord were major plot points, and a significant nexus in The Doctor's existence. Going there, and updating it into more modern canon, makes sense to me, tying The Doctor's personal timeline together. My only concern is whether they'd want to revisit the trial itself, which poses all SORTS of problems, or just elide it (probably; among other things, it would be after the next regeneration, which means doing it with a new Doctor).

If in fact The Trickster, or The Fear Lord, or whatever, is an aspect of The Doctor, this episode sets THAT up nicely, by having him be a portion of The Doctor not cleaned by Clara, who possesses one of the bodies of the Toothy Guys.

At least this episode continues the last several eps' gang of terrific guest stars (Diana Rigg, Warwick Davis, and now John Hurt - okay, he's more of a future guest).

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Please note that I don't

I know, I know, sorry. I'm still... processing.

The Valeyard and Trial of a Timelord were major plot points...

... of the Doctor so unpopular he got fired and the Cartmel Masterplan that was so confusing and unpopular the show got canceled. I just can't see dusting off the Valeyard as a winning move. BBC has to make this show for the masses now, not the fans who fell in love with the show in the early 80s.

I will admit that guest stars/recurring characters are Moffat's strongest suit. He's excellent at creating powerful impressions in a short time.

[redaxe.livejournal.com]

No argument, Six sucked red rubber moose. He and Five, plus of course the insanity at the Beeb, are what in my opinion killed the show.

That doesn't make the Valeyard necessarily a bad thing or impossible to work with; we've certainly seen reboots of key plot points before (Rassilon, for example). It does need to be handled with care, but I think it can be made into both a hook for Old Who fans and a swing point for New Who, as The Doctor gets past this (inevitable) episode of internal darkness and heads out, stronger than ever.

Though Moffatt, or whomever is running the show by then, would do well to read Charlie Jane Anders at io9 (http://io9.com/the-central-problem-with-steven-moffats-doctor-who-507670201).

[redaxe.livejournal.com]

Oh, nuts. I think I used language that hit your spam filters.

Yes, Six was awful, and Five not much better. They, plus the shenanigans at the Beeb with who ran the show at the time, were key reasons it was canceled. (Imagine if Sylvester McCoy had directly followed Tom Baker, and had had more than a couple of decent scripts...)

I disagree with you about the Valeyard: I think, handled well (won't give good odds on that, to be sure), it would be a hook for Old Who fans, as well as giving New Who an opportunity for a healthy catharsis. It will be tricky, but I think it could be done; maybe they can get Gatiss to write it. Or Moffatt -- if there's a strict editor who can rein him in.

Whoever's running the show by then, I do hope they read Charlie Jane Anders on io9 (http://io9.com/the-central-problem-with-steven-moffats-doctor-who-507670201), though.

[redaxe.livejournal.com]

Ah. It wasn't the language; it was the link that sent the prior replies to the spam filters. Not going to retype them, but I do wonder what it was about that link that was toxic.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

? What was the link to, maybe I can Google it?

[redaxe.livejournal.com]

Charlie Jane Anders on modern Who at io9

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

He's not Nine, Eleven flat out tells Clara that he is the Eleventh and we see a double in Nine's jacket in one of Clara's scenes.

If anything, he's either very late Eight, when the Time War has gone all to hell, though there's the unkillable theory that he's "technically" the ninth regeneration, coming between Eight and Nine, and scratched from the memory because the Doctor (From Nine on) hated what he became.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Considering how much Nine and Eleven loathe themselves, I doubt that they need help from someone they don't remember.

Moffat has pulled stranger irons out of the fire that the fans never saw coming. I hope this is the same, because so far - the "real" Nine, the "forgotten" Nine, the Valeyard - all kind of suck in my opinion.

[ponygirl72.livejournal.com]

Regarding Hurt as Nine:

*spoiler*

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My understanding is that Eccleston is now Ten, Tennant is Eleven, and Smith is Twelve. Though, judging by the in-episode explanation, we won't have to bother with new numbers. Hurt is That Gallifreyan Guy, Many of Whose Incarnations Call themselves "The Doctor", but he hasn't earned the title-- he's been internally disowned, so to speak.

If I had to speculate, I would guess that the Time Lords forced poor, gentle Eight to regenerate into something they could "work with" during the Time War. I'm laying odds on having some new McGann footage sometime before Nov. 24th.

::crosses fingers::

[neadods.livejournal.com]

And all this renumbering is only going to overexcite the folks who think that the show just *has* to be held to the old regeneration limit, even though the BBC site blew that away in 2005.

Can't say I like this idea, but I don't like the Valeyard idea either. I have a horrible feeling I'm hosed.

[ponygirl72.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure Teh Moff will take care of that particular bugaboo before he leaves. Arguably, if Smith is Twelve, and Tennant used up a regeneration into the hand in The Stolen Earth (I think? Memory going...), the Matt Smith's incarnation has no regenerations left under the old paradigm.

At this point, the whole mess could be dealt with in a couple of lines at the next regeneration. (Time Lords gone; no artificially imposed limit anymore, blah, blah, blah.) Can't say this is high on my list of worries. Plus, I'm having too much fun watching parts of Gallifrey Base implode after the kiss to focus on much else...

[not-hathor.livejournal.com]

But didn't River give the Doctor all HER regenerations when she brought him back to life in "Blanking on the Episode Name"?

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Oh, good point!

[neadods.livejournal.com]

That's pretty much what the BBC site said about regenerations back in 2005; no Time Lords, no artificially imposed limits.

[nonelvis]

He's not the valeyard, the Internet tells me, he's Nine. Which is going to poison my looking back at my favorite Doctor, it really is. I get that Eccleston has only bad memories of the show, but why do such a clunky recast?

The internet has nothing but rumor to go on, and I really doubt Moffat would completely recast Nine. I don't think it's worth getting annoyed now about a plot point people are at least partially and maybe totally pulling out of their asses.

Same goes for the Valeyard, btw. It was nice to have so many Classic references in that episode, but whether Hurt is the Valeyard or not -- no one but Moffat and the people working on the show know the answer to that question. I doubt very much that the anniversary episode will center around any specific Classic Who canon, especially since Moffat's already said the episode is being made for a new generation of fans.

Really, I get why you'd be upset if this particular character came back, but I don't think we know enough about the anniversary to make any calls about its plot other than what's been publicly disclosed -- which is virtually nothing beyond casting.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Re not getting upset: good point. I remember all e hearburn over the Deeper Meaning of the song about stowaways in that one special, and how hard I laughed at the people who got upset in advance. And now I'm guilty of the same.

Especially as the big takeout of the Doctor's name has turned into such a minor plot point.

[mondyboy.livejournal.com]

It's not a recast of Eccles.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

I won't be much happier if it's the new Nine that polite people don't talk about.

[penguineggs.livejournal.com]

Strax likes boozing and beating up people Glasgow. I'm amused as heck, but at the same time, I wonder how many people are going to be yelling online that Moffat is racist against Scots.

With any luck, they'll include that appalling woman from Shakesville.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

I remember that there was an outcry against "You're Scottish, fry something" back at Eleventh hour. Because Moffat is apparently no true Scotsman.