Taking my opportunity to vent

[neadods]

The penny took a long time to drop, but I finally figured out that two folks on my f-list seem to be quietly and dignifiedly bitching at *each other.* Call me Switzerland, folks; what you want to see in your show/fandom and what you say in your personal LJs is your own business. If I see a chance for dialog I'll take it and have, and have appreciated the responses. I have a preference, but I don't have dog in this fight, and I have respect for both of you.

However, to the kid who seems to be determined to bring on the wank? Child, I've walked hip-deep through more shit than you know how to stir. Vague announcements that folks who disagree with you should STFU to "avoid offense" are like the smell of gunpowder to this warhorse.

Just one quick question, although you'll probably never read this open post... do you really want to be pulling "fandom is" 'tudes with someone who's had more fandoms than you've had hot dinners? Whose experience of fandom runs well beyond sitting behind a computer? Take your righteous indignation and share it with the lurkers who support you in email; I've been in the trenches and you don't have a clue.

Comments

[jeff-morris.livejournal.com]

And get off her lawn, dagnabbit!

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Ha! Yes. *shakes my cane at the whippersnapper*

[ladyfox7oaks.livejournal.com]

WOW... read that former post and... WOW.. O_O
I'd heard bits and pieces- though it was all after the fact,-- I was a child when the show was on, and recall watching the first couple of seasons with dreamy eyes..- But I missed the last season or two when it got ... strange- and never did find out what happened in that world. I heard that the fans were up in arms about it- but never realized the extent or severity of it all.
... I even know one fanfic writer who took such personal damage at that time that she abandoned that world completely and it still hurts her to even mention it... She doesn't think she'll ever write that world again.
But I had no clue it had been so widespread or so... so... idiotically VICIOUS.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Oh, it was amazing! And at the time, it seemed so damned important to Make People Understand My Point Of View Was more Valid than theirs.

Mind you, the one thing I got more shit for than anything else all together was that letter to Starlog. Love the character, loathe the character - that's all in a day's fandom, but write a letter saying "It's just a TV show and the hero's just a guy in makeup"? ANATHEMA!

Every time I remember someone trying to throw me off a panel at Media*West 15 years later for that letter, I just have to throttle back wild laughter. She's probably going to be there again this year, too. She and I have always been attending since the days of yore; just that one year she suddenly decided to stop ignoring me and give me what for. The balls of me, to keep walking around and being on panels like I'm a real fan!

[ladyfox7oaks.livejournal.com]

If NOTHING Else, I will learn from the hardships and accumulated wisdom of others and always try to remember "It's a FANdom, we do this for FUN, right?"

[lil-shepherd.livejournal.com]

Hi:

Watching your lj because - despite the fact none of your fandoms are mine - I love your posts.

As a veteran of the Starsky and Hutch wars, I sympathise. (Particularly as I got the most venom for publishing a fellow fan's superb review of a not-particularly-good fanzine, for pointing out that Rembrandt did not paint the Mona Lisa to a BNF, and for suggesting that a manuscript submitted in block typing to a pro publisher would probably be rejected out of hand. (Ah, the great white space wars...)

You have my sympathy.

[acroyear70.livejournal.com]

there were starsky and hutch wars?

oh brother...

[lil-shepherd.livejournal.com]

Transatlantic S&H wars...

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Really? *boggles* I'm afraid to ask about what. Character/cast changes? The proper care and feeding of a Torino?

And hey, if you like reading the posts, I'm flattered. The topics are eclectic around here.

[ladyfox7oaks.livejournal.com]

Eclectic, exotic, erratic or eccentric, we love 'em nonetheless!

[lil-shepherd.livejournal.com]

It was a very small fandom, and the fun and games occurred in slow motion, in the letterzine. I don't know much about the US side of it (though I remember receiving a letter from one fan who had been a big name in US ST fandom, who said, "You are absolutely right, but I wouldn't dare say so.") There were some very... er... strong personalities (and several people who have gone on to be pro writers.) Much like continuous flaming, except that they knew your real name and location. I bailed out before it really went to pot, and I was never involved with the 'secret' slash letterzine, which was apparently even worse.

It's odd, but the in-fighting was not so much about the show as about fanzines. Though it was not done to suggest that fourth season existed at all, let alone was admirable (that's all right by me, as it isn't) or to express any admiration for any other buddy cop show (particularly The Professionals.)

Though, come to think of it, there was all that stuff about the "kiss in the alley...", which is a good example of fans seeing what isn't there, even in slow motion.

[ivydoor.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I wasn't sure whether I was going to respond to this or not.

I will say this: I'm not "determined to bring the wank". I'm not the one who wrote a huge public post berating all those who Dare to Disagree. I'm not the comm manager who posted the link as "____ wants crazy _____ fans to stop ruining the fandom". (although that has since been changed) I simply spoke my mind and refuse to be labeled in that manner or made to feel bad for my personal choices.

You're an old warhorse? Really? Me too! Rare to find these days. Most kids speak 133t as a first language. It's nice to meet people who have been around awhile and can actually form a coherent sentence.

That said, if you want to continue our discussion in the original thread, feel free. I'm game. I do have some family stuff to take care of but we can chat later.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

I wondered if you'd be so uninterested in wank or having a war that you'd start clicking everyone who commented on one personal journal to see what they were saying in their personal journals as well. And now I know.

If you want to discuss a topic, post it in a community. If you feel that a post violates community guidelines or is needlessly provocative, bring it up to that community's mods.

Fair warning: Tell me what opinions that I am or am not permitted to air publicly in my own journal and you're banned.

[badonkatonks.livejournal.com]

YOU GO GURL!!!!!

[malaleen.livejournal.com]

Funny, I did exactly the same thing as I looked over the posted comments in my lj, and found some very interesting discussion as a result. However, I didn't feel the need to respond to one of them. Strange how that is....

[neadods.livejournal.com]

I did exactly the same thing as I looked over the posted comments in my lj

What, track back to their LJs? I figure there's enough aggravation in my life, and the whole point of personal LJs is to vent your own opinions.

I am wondering if there's going to be a similar war when Martha switches over to Companion #3.

[malaleen.livejournal.com]

I was just curious about who was posting on my lj, as I didn't recognize many of the names. Was rather surprised at the cord that my post struck in some people. I had no idea I'd inspire such...deep reflection, I suppose.

However, I really don't have the time, nor energy to debate anyone, especially sense I know nothing I say will appease many of them.

[drakyndra.livejournal.com]

You haven't been linked on who_daily or anything yet for this.

So... going to your personal LJ is hardly the act of someone wanting to avoid wanky debate.

I call shennanigans.

[zinelady.livejournal.com]

I guess I've never been in the middle of a fan war. I don't know if it's because I tend to leave when the fighting gets nasty or I'm just don't get that involved.

I wasn't a fan of Blakes 7 until after the war was all over. I watched BatB from the very beginning and read whatever zines I could get at Media West, but I didn't do any writing or read any newsletters. I didn't even know there was a fan war until after the fact. I left one Yahoo Group for Kevin Smith-Ares when people started flaming each other and the moderator didn't do anything to stop it.

Can you call fandom splits caused by ships fanwars? Like Jack/Daniel fans vs. the Jack/Sam fans...Or House/Wilson fans vs. House/Cameron? I can remember some pretty tense Media West panels for Stargate. House is more an online fandom I think, but I've read some pretty vicious flame wars. Fortunately, the moderators put them out pretty quickly.

That seems to be the one disadvantage that Live Journal has compared to Yahoo Groups. Unless you make all of your posts 'friends only', anyone can drop in and troll on community journals.

I guess I have the opinion that everyone has a right to their opinion and the right to state their opinion, but I also have the right not to listen to their opinion if I think it's stupid, but I'm not going to jump in and tell them they are stupid unless they are being nasty to someone else. I'm like Scotty. It's not worth it. (unless they start calling the Enterprise a garbage scow and then all bets are off.)

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Can you call fandom splits caused by ships fanwars?

Are people forgetting that in the end it's just a TV show and the only control we have over it is fanfic? Then yeah, it's a war. Stargate has gotten very hairy sometimes. I remember a few Media*Wests ago when a bunch of people made up show-bashing T-shirts. I guess that trolling online wasn't exciting enough.

I also have the right not to listen to their opinion if I think it's stupid, but I'm not going to jump in and tell them they are stupid unless they are being nasty to someone else.

Exactly! Looking for ways to be offended and then following everyone around to be sure they know you're offended? Maybe not so much with the maturity.

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

Can you call fandom splits caused by ships fanwars?

I'd be more likely to call them "fan feuds," but that's jargon out of lit-SF fandom and has some very specific connotations for me that it might not for other people.

[calenorn.livejournal.com]

Never a warhorse, my dear.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

One of those things with the four tusks from Lord of the Rings, then, maybe?

[ladyfox7oaks.livejournal.com]

Not an Oliphaunt, either...

[calenorn.livejournal.com]

Pachyderms can be quite graceful, actually.

Fierce, though.

[--kali--.livejournal.com]

I read through your linked post and can only say "blimey!" I thought I'd been embroiled in some wanky wars over the years, but that's just beyond words.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

The one that gets me is the one who held a grudge over a letter to the editor for 14 years. That's just... impressive, in a very sad way.

[doyle_sb4.livejournal.com]

My first online fandom experience was due South, just as Kowalski replaced Vecchio and the Ray Wars erupted. Ah, good times.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Oh, golly, I remember that. Ray II was never a personal favorite, but the hypnosis episode was some of the funniest TV I've ever seen.