neadods: (disagree)
[personal profile] neadods
I've picked up a story making the rounds of the feminist blogs, and finally clicked on the original article Shakespeare's Sister has hung up like a pinata.

It was highly educational.

Silly, silly me. I've got an expenses-paid trip to Italy (which I have never visited) in *checks clock* 36 hours, I've got a lovely house, rock-solid friends in person, interesting friends online, amusing and productive hobbies, and a highly active fandom that brings me great joy and inspiration that has just started airing long-awaited episodes of an eagerly-anticipated spinoff (not to mention the kickoff of the new fall TV season, always a big deal for a fangirl).

For some damned reason, I thought I was, y'know, happy.

But it is not to be. I see that now. Some Brit bint named Voak knows ever so much more about me than I do, you see. And she knows that In all my years of helping overweight people to slim, I have never met a happy fat person.

There is no such thing
.

Her worldview could not at all be skewed by the fact that she considers herself a 'slimming evangelist' or that the only overweight people she talks to have already decided that they are unhappy with their weight and come to her to fix the problem.

Nor can her binary worldview grasp that some people decide to deal with their weight by not angsting about it. That can take the form of not caring, or it can take the form of making certain decisions from a non-masochistic point of view. For instance, you can tell yourself "I'm going to have to strictly measure my portions and intake because I'm a fat, fat pig!" Or maybe you could say "I'm going to fill this darling little bento box with my meals, knowing that it will handle portion control for me so prettily." Perhaps it's "get your fat lazy ass on the treadmill! You must sweat in penance!" Vs. "Hmmm... workout should be 20 minutes to half an hour. A classic episode of Doctor Who or a Big Finish adventure section runs about 25 minutes. Let me move this TV in front of the treadmill..."

Am I happy with my weight? No. Doing something about it. Am I happy with my life? Funny thing, despite the weight, I'm going to say "yes." Because of, y'know, the home and the friends and the fandom and, oh, Italy.

Date: 2007-09-27 05:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] violetisblue.livejournal.com
And y'know, the thing is, too, that I'm oftentimes not happy with my weight, and I'm thin--could it possibly be that the real source of all this unhappiness the "slimming evangelist" sees is the insane media-driven standards for women's bodies and the resulting distorted, negative self-images that result, whether one is fat, thin or in between? Nah, that couldn't be it, that's crazy talk.

Date: 2007-09-27 07:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] neadods.livejournal.com
She says she doesn't want the world to be full of stick figures... but sees the world only in numbers of pounds.

Date: 2007-09-27 07:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] violetisblue.livejournal.com
Reminds me a bit of that recent Vogue article about how refusing to spend thousands of dollars on your clothes and change them out constantly according to the whims of fashion is a sign of low female self-esteem. Uh-huh. Good luck keeping that industry propped up on the backs of the terminally insecure, I'll be over here in my three-year-old jeans.

Date: 2007-09-27 08:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] neadods.livejournal.com
A sign of low profits, maybe. Surprising how my self-esteem doesn't rely on just having to buy bad colors and bizarre cuts every time the wind changes.

Date: 2007-09-27 08:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] violetisblue.livejournal.com
They seem to be getting nervous because even women with the money to spend on $800 skirts and $1500 coats aren't. Cue the tiny violins.

Date: 2007-09-27 05:08 pm (UTC)
ext_2721: original art by james jean (jamesjean.com) (Default)
From: [identity profile] skywardprodigal.livejournal.com
all my years of helping overweight people to slim, I have never met a happy fat person.

!!!!!

She's gotta sell her services based on lifestyle branding? People like about makeup properties all the time. What an IDIOT.

And, I'm so happy you're going to be traveling soon.

Date: 2007-09-27 05:10 pm (UTC)
ext_2721: original art by james jean (jamesjean.com) (Default)
From: [identity profile] skywardprodigal.livejournal.com
"lie" rather than "like"

Date: 2007-09-27 07:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] neadods.livejournal.com
I *love* to travel. There's a joy right there.

Date: 2007-09-27 05:13 pm (UTC)
lagilman: coffee or die (peevy short chick)
From: [personal profile] lagilman
*snort.*

No, let me rephrase that.

*SNORT*

Trust me, children, you can be by all standards slender and miserable. Truly. Been there, done that.

Go to Italy. Walk and eat and shop and sightsee and squee and indulge and know that this woman is getting neither your money nor your time because her business depends on your being unhappy and, well, you're NOT.

And dude, if you get a chance? Pinch an Italian guy's ass for me. *grin*

Date: 2007-09-27 07:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] neadods.livejournal.com
Pinch an Italian guy's ass for me

You're ON! :D

Date: 2007-09-27 07:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ladyfox7oaks.livejournal.com
And get his other cheek for me? Please?

Date: 2007-09-27 05:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] altariel.livejournal.com
I notice the article was in the Daily Mail, a nasty little bourgeois tabloid that, when it's not ranting about the nation being swamped with immigrants, regularly carries misogynist claptrap about biological clocks and how women can't have it all you know.

(The Daily Mail's most telling moment: one side of the page raving about the-pedophiles-in-our-midst, the other carrying a picture of a 15-year-old Charlotte Church with comments on how big her breasts were getting.)

Date: 2007-09-27 05:24 pm (UTC)
ext_3965: (Ten Martha Persiflage)
From: [identity profile] persiflage-1.livejournal.com
Exactly... I avoid all the tabloid rags (I refuse to dignify them with the term "newspaper") like the plague... *shudder*

The only reason I'm not happy is 'cos I'm always broke, not 'cos I'm not a stick insect ! Stupid, stupid woman...

Date: 2007-09-28 11:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mevennen.livejournal.com
The Daily Mail is a national joke. This from the newspaper who supported the Nazi Party back in the 1930s - a different form of fascism.

Date: 2007-09-27 05:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] calenorn.livejournal.com
Always beware of total strangers who want to tell you how to be happy.

Date: 2007-09-27 09:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] starcat-jewel.livejournal.com
Much wisdom! A version of that may become a bumper sticker.

Date: 2007-09-28 12:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] calenorn.livejournal.com
Glad you like it. 'Twill have to be pared down to fit on a bumper sticker, but feel free!

Date: 2007-09-27 06:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tchwrtr.livejournal.com
You are awesomeness in knowing yourself. Rock on.

And don't forget to look at the yarn while in Italy! *wink*

Date: 2007-09-27 06:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] neadods.livejournal.com
Totally. Which reminds me, I need to google "yarn store, Rome" having just discovered the custom sandal place on Positano...

Date: 2007-09-27 06:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tchwrtr.livejournal.com
Oh HECK yeah! The mills for WEBS happen to be Italian...I'm guessing there's yarn to be had there. *wink*

And if you need somewhere to ship it OR the sandals, you know where I live. *WEG*

Date: 2007-09-27 07:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] neadods.livejournal.com
Heh. You'll get the sandals if I do that - we don't have the same sized feet!

Date: 2007-09-27 07:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tchwrtr.livejournal.com
Phoo. Forgot that. But if you happen upon some being...I don't know...given away or something in my size, think of me? *grin*

Actually, the thought of pinching Italian asses sounds better. Do that.

Date: 2007-09-27 10:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hildy.livejournal.com
Knitting in Rome: Long and fairly recent blog post that may be helpful or depressing depending.

Date: 2007-09-27 10:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] neadods.livejournal.com
Googling hasn't shown me much, so I'm not holding out hope.

On the other hand, I found a store that does custom sandals!

Date: 2007-09-27 06:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] steviesun.livejournal.com
"Of course, if you are somebody like Dawn French - who is beautiful, talented, intelligent and witty - then you can cope more easily with being overweight.

But you still aren't happy, and I don't believe that she is. "

And yet in the Times the other week they were pointing out that Dawn French has skin to die for and a confidence that we could all learn from. Is she healthy? No. Is she happy? If she's not it's probably not because of her weight. The article in the Times made me think about how maybe we should stop looking at the bits we don't like in the mirror and start congratulating ourselves for the bits we do like. Which I think was the point of another tv programme over here called "How to Look Good Naked". I love Gok.


"I like her candor and common sense, calling someone "fat," instead of the politically correct "curvy." We all know why slimmers regain the weight. They go back to the bad habits that made them fat in the first place.

- Pamela, London"
There's a world of difference between curvy and fat. Curvy is all about having the curves in the right places in the right proportions, even if not necessarily the right measurements, whilst fat is more than that. So much of the media makes me want to see myself as fat, when in fact I know I have a fantastic curvy body. Stuff this obviously skinny bitter bitch, bet she'd love some sexy curves that have the blokes drooling.


In short ladies: find what you do like about your appearance (from your figure to your skin to your teeth to your hands to your nails, or toes, or eyes, or hair), and stuff the skinny people as long as your weight isn't unhealthy. And if it is, I wish you luck doing something about it, I'm struggling to convince myself to lose weight (my internal voices argue whether it's necessary and then someone offers me a cream cake).

Date: 2007-09-27 07:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] neadods.livejournal.com
Curvy is all about having the curves in the right places in the right proportions, even if not necessarily the right measurements, whilst fat is more than that

Yes. Precisely. But they're wittling women down to skin and bones in fashion.

Eat the cream cake and then walk around the block. Life's too short.

Date: 2007-09-28 11:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mevennen.livejournal.com
My other half used to live in the vicarage belonging to the real Vicar of Dibley (ie the village in which it was filmed) - a very cool man who had been a buyer for Dom Perignon in a former existence, for the record. Anyway, French used to roar up for filming in shades and the latest model of Jag and is, though apparently nice, neither cuddly nor fluffy nor anything other than a very successful actress and producer. Go her, say I.

Date: 2007-09-27 06:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peggin.livejournal.com
If she think there's no such thing as a happy fat person, she must have *nothing* going on in her life except for her weight. I mean, sure, I'd love to lose more weight, and I'm working on it, so I can say that I'm not happy about my weight. But my weight is not my whole life, it doesn't define everything about me. I have a great family, great friends, a great job... the idea that I'm not a happy person overall just because there are a couple of things about my life I'd like to change is simply pathetic.

Date: 2007-09-27 07:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] neadods.livejournal.com
the idea that I'm not a happy person overall just because there are a couple of things about my life I'd like to change is simply pathetic

Exactly!

Date: 2007-09-27 09:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] starcat-jewel.livejournal.com
This is absolutely typical of One-True-Wayist arguments. They simply redefine their terms to mean what they want them to. In this case (warning, linguist jargon!), she's redefined "happy" to include the particle "+not-fat", so of course no fat person can be happy... by her own personal definition, which bears no relationship to common usage.

One dead giveaway for this kind of redefining is the claim that anyone who disagrees with them is "in denial". In this case, I could mirror it right back at her: SHE is clearly in denial about the reality of fat people who are nonetheless happy despite her loathing! It's all about the ego.

Date: 2007-09-27 06:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] harmonyfb.livejournal.com
::is fat, happy, lazy woman::

Cookie?

Actually, my weight control is generally triggered by tight pants and the possibility of diabetes. Since my pants are sized 14-16, and I'm pretty happy with that (at size 14, my bp and my blood sugar are good), I imagine that bitch considers me an enormous fatass. ::makes fuck off gesture across the water::

Date: 2007-09-27 06:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] neadods.livejournal.com
Cookie?

Thanks!

I want to get back down one size. Two would be nice; one will be sufficient. (My doctor doesn't give a rat's ass about the scale number, but he sees precursors in my bloodwork.) I've done it before, and I did it without drastic, unsustainable lifestyle changes. If the blood markers change, then that's enough and damn the scales.

Date: 2007-09-27 07:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ladyfox7oaks.livejournal.com
I don't consider myself fat, maybe a smidgen heavier than would be perfect for me, but not FAT... (5' 6" and about 180-ish... though I don't think I look and I certainly don't FEEL that weight!)
So - please, may I go SIT on this woman and break her? Because obviously she is a very unhappy woman who does nothing but focus on what she hates about herself in others and she needs a reality check.

Date: 2007-09-27 11:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kefiraahava.livejournal.com
First of all, have a fabulous time in Italy!

Second...I think I'll spare myself some aggravation by not reading the link. I'm happier with my life than I've ever been. When I was a size 6 and people thought that was great, I was cold, dizzy, my hipbones hurt constantly, and I was probably on the edge of an eating disorder. The dress size wasn't worth the physical pain and emotional suffering.

Does that mean I'm apparently doomed to unhappiness now that I'm not a size 6? *eye roll* Whatever. So don't think so.

Date: 2007-09-28 05:44 pm (UTC)
fyrdrakken: (Ace)
From: [personal profile] fyrdrakken
That's it exactly -- beauty standards are always set to something women have to struggle to attain. You suffer to be beautiful, or you live and dress to please yourself and accept the consequences in terms of the societal message that a woman's value is first and foremost based on her appearance and attractiveness.

Which means you either bend over backwards to be "beautiful" -- a moving target, and one that inevitably gets farther away with age -- or you quit prioritizing it over health. I think "happiness" is a lot more attainable if you don't go assuming it comes with "beauty" -- and this woman's premise is flawed.

Date: 2007-09-28 11:17 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] moropus.livejournal.com
I am 5'4 and I weigh 200 lbs. and I am fat. I don't care what I weigh. I care about my cholesteral and my blood pressure, which are fine.

When I gave up on a lifetime of dieting which I began at age 13, my periods became normal in every way for the first time in my life. No pain, no flooding, no lasting forever. That's enough to make me happy right there. I'm 44, so I would expect the reverse to happen.

Mom taught me to wear classic clothes that don't go our of style, so I am not a fashion victim or a diet victim.

My husband recently became aware that adverts aimed at men try to make them feel powerful, while those aimed at women try to make them feel bad.

Date: 2007-09-28 11:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] neadods.livejournal.com
My husband recently became aware that adverts aimed at men try to make them feel powerful, while those aimed at women try to make them feel bad.

Yup, pretty much.

Wait a minute -

Date: 2007-10-01 05:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] flaviarassen.livejournal.com
You're heavy? You must have put on a lot of weight since I last saw you.
(Please note how I am totally ignoring the stupid woman you were writing about....?)

Re: Wait a minute -

Date: 2007-10-08 04:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] neadods.livejournal.com
I'm thinner than I've been, but I'm a lot chunkier than I've been too.

To tell the truth, though, the one physical thing I've ALWAYS hated about myself and would plastically change if I wasn't a wuss about surgery isn't the weight. It's the receding chin. I wouldn't give a rat's ass about my weight if I had a jawline.

Re: Wait a minute -

Date: 2007-10-09 11:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] flaviarassen.livejournal.com
Well, I certainly think you're attractive (Of course, my being a married heterosexual female, that's not going to do you that much good....).

Re: Wait a minute -

Date: 2007-10-09 11:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] neadods.livejournal.com
*amused but flattered snort*

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