Poll for novice knitters and people who think about learning

[neadods]

So, I'm working on the knitting book. There are a couple of goals here:

1) To have a dozen projects, with a "use up the yarn from everything else" making the baker's dozenth pattern.

2) To make every project so portable that each module can be carried in a purse-sized cosmetics bag.

2a) To make every project easy to pick up and put down and come back to later. (Numbered needles rule!)

3) To make the new knitter buy the minimum of equipment (all projects knit to same gauge) and learn the minimum of acronyms (less than 10.)

Frankly, I'm hoping that $600 of Therapy and a Free Afghan is going to be one of those gateway books that knitters use to lure their unsuspecting friends into the hobby Mwahahahahahaaa!

*ahem* Anyway, I've decided to divvy up the patterns provided into four sections, with escalating skills so people can tackle what they want when they feel ready for it. Section 1 is the simplest: garter stitch and its associated concepts, "knit two together" and "knit front and back."

Section 4 is the hardest: cables. (Seriously, it's nothing to worry about. Same basic stitch as garter. Honest.)

What I can't decide is what Section 2 should be. For some reason, the purl stitch seems to freak people out; I've even heard someone at the knitalong saying that they've knit for three years "and am just about to learn purling." On the other hand, the yarnover intimidates at least one person I know.

So which, of the two, is the less threatening to a nervous novice? If I go to purl next, I can bring the readers up to seed stitch and broken rib - all sorts of texture play. But purl is a different stitch. On the other hand, the yarnover is the same motion as garter, and yarnovers + knit two together = all sorts of fabulous lacy effects that look much harder than they are. (Why yes, there *is* going to be a feather and fan project!)

[Poll #1211690]

Comments

[melusinehr.livejournal.com]

I learned to purl around the same time I learned to knit; I don't think it's that scary. Lace knitting, on the other hand--well, that's not just yarnovers, it's counting.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Ah, but if you do it right only the once, when you put in the stitch markers.

I'm not above suggesting that people put in different colored markers, or 2 or 3 markers together so that they know which row to do which thing at which marker.

[melusinehr.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I should probably be better about stitch markers, though they wouldn't have helped the lace shawl I did recently. (I haven't blocked it, so no pictures as yet.) Even when I got the hang of the pattern, I would still find myself skipping yarnovers on occasion.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Oh, that's gorgeous!

I've just broken down and ordered a couple of shawl patterns. Why did nobody tell me about garter eyelet lace?

[amilyn.livejournal.com]

I think that the purl stitch is essential to advancing in knitting, but I put yarnover as second because then the classic garter stitch washcloth comes into play early on and easily.

Course, I think knit, purl, and yarnover are easy, though I find knit stitches faster to do and easier on my hands; purling is less smooth for me and always has been, but I don't find it at all intimidating.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

I learned on the basic "grandmother's favorite" - and that that adapts to an afghan block quite nicely doesn't hurt.

Purl (and k2t) I have to look down for. Knit I can do on autopilot these days.

[evil_plotbunny]

I chose ticky boxes.

My first project involved cables. I tend to jump in at the deep end. I also never understood why people had trouble purling until I started the Dalek socks and was holding strands of yarn in each hand. I am not the person who should be deciding this.

On a totally unrelated note, I don't want to click on your spoiler post, but I need to know if I should be linking it on soniclipstick tonight. Y/N???

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Y if there isn't very much else to link; otherwise N because I don't think there's much "there" there.

[evil_plotbunny]

Okay. Thanks.

I think I've got enough without it.

I will be sticking a link in the spoiler section for the Doctor Who website, since it's been updated.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Have any idea where the non-Brit can be getting those exclusive cartoons from the BBC site?

[evil_plotbunny]

Nope, but there are proxies around. I just don't remember where they are.

[cleothyla.livejournal.com]

I learned purling, too, when I learned. I have done yarnovers but they are a little harder. I've been busy doing cabled wristwarmers similar to the Knitty Pattern Fetching, except I make them longer.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff183/Cleothyla/Feb2901.jpg

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Purty! I'm about to start thinking about very simple wristwarmers, but it's hard to be serious about the project when it's 90+ degrees outside.

[cleothyla.livejournal.com]

I can understand that. I'm lucky, I'm in the other Washington (state) and it's not that hot yet. :)

[iko.livejournal.com]

I answered "yarn overs" because I think that answers the question of "So which, of the two, is the less threatening to a nervous novice?". I learned purling in context of the knit stitch, the way it is shown from Debbie Stoller's book (yes, that was my gateway book to learn how to knit), but I can imagine someone JUST getting the hang of the knit stitch getting a bit uncomfortable with all of the things that need to be done with the yarn and the needles to get a purl stitch. Moving the yarn forward to do a yo is sort of like the first half of learning how to do a purl stitch. So I can totally see the progression being knit -> yarn over -> purl in terms of learning how to do those three things.

[swallowedbysky.livejournal.com]

In retrospect, YOs shouldn't have scared me, but when I learned to knit *any* increase or decrease scared me. Purling was scary too, but not as scary as YOs. Then again, I learned to work on DPNs before I learned to purl, I learned to cable before I learned to K2Tog, and I learned how to execute perfect short row bust shaping before I ever needed to do a yarn over. My first six months as a knitter were, I'm told, a bit atypical.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

*blinks* Yes, that is a bit atypical!

I can sort-of see the point... cabling is just stockinette out of order really. But K2t took that long? That one's about as easy as you can get!

[swallowedbysky.livejournal.com]

When I say six months, I'm estimating, but it took about that long for me to feel confident enough to try anything a pattern threw at me. Mostly, all I made when I first learned were scarves, and fairly simple ones at that.

I think the thing that threw me was listening to my mother tell me that it wasn't uncommon for new knitters to accidentally increase or decrease, and so I didn't want to learn, lest increasing or decreasing became a bad habit. In retrospect, I'm aware of exactly how stupid this sounds.

[astitchintime-9.livejournal.com]

Learning to Purl should absolutely come after learning the knit stitch!

I am working on a fabulous basketweave pattern that couldn't be simpler, but looks complex.

[Unfortunately, that pattern isn't online. For some general examples, have a look at the photo (note cute cat, as required) (http://www.leisureartslibrary.com/cart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=0&idproduct=79) and some general instructions (http://www.ehow.com/how_2164554_knit-basket-weave-stitch.html). I realize that you already know this, but I'll add that it's also a great pattern for a portable project square. As an aside, IME, the stitch looks best in a medium shade, so that there's more definition to the pattern.]

So I vote to teach the Purl next. And then YO after that.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

I've got a nice cable that gives a woven effect that's going to be introduced at one point. And I might have a much smaller version of the basketweave... another rule of the book is that all patterns are a maximum of a 4-row repeat. That's enough to do basic textures and cables, but not too many needles to juggle if you use numbered straights. (I'm still trying to work out the mechanics of numbering my circulars. The Knitpicks that I'm so fond of are so well polished that I can't get nail polish or sharpie to stick to them!)

[darthfox.livejournal.com]

There can be yarnovers before knits or before purls. I really think not knowing how to purl is a serious detriment, while not knowing how to handle a yarnover is ... well, less serious. But, I mean, honestly, there are two stitches, right, just the two, so I think a person should learn them both before moving on into different ways of manipulating them. (The fact that I was taught both knit and purl before I ever learned to increase or decrease is, funnily enough, beside the point. But I really can't get my head around what's so scary about purling that you don't learn it for three years. Good grief.)

[darthfox.livejournal.com]

Added to this: I learned yarnovers by accident when I was trying to purl, because I hadn't yet quite got the hang of always moving the yarn between the needles. I really think purling needs to come first, and then you can even say in your YO intro, hey, if you noticed some issues with your purling, and this is what they looked like, this is what happens, so, well done sorting out the purling, but congratulations!, you've already begun with the yarnover. :-D

[not-hathor.livejournal.com]

I said 'Purl', because it IS a different stitch, BUT it is an essential one for lots of things. Knit-together isn't hard; however, the "Increase" still gives me fits sometimes, as does 'slipstitch' ---

For some reason, any time I see 'stitch marker' in the instructions, I freak. I'm not sure why; maybe because of the implication that this project requires "PAYING ATTENTION, duhn duhn DAH!!!!!", therefore, more complicated than I generally feel comfortable with.

Was that any help?

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Huh. I use stitchmarkers out the wazoo, on the basis that I *don't* have to pay attention because they're doing the counting for me.

[badgermirlacca.livejournal.com]

Okay, I'm one of the recently-sucked in not-fully-committed (or at least recently escaped from the asylum). I learned knit and purl first, and am still trying to figure out increasing and decreasing. Yarnover? What is this yarnover of which you speak?

signed, Maker of the Longest Swatch Going

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Yarnovers are a way of increasing that leaves a little hole, like an eyelet. Like the edge of this washcloth.

I've seen directions that say "bring yarn forward" (and THEN what?) but the way I finally got it was this:

Y'know how you wrap the yarn around the right needle to make a knit stitch? Well, to make a yarnover, just wrap the yarn once around the right needle as if you were making a stitch, but without having done anything with the left needle. Then make the next stitch as normal. When you come back, there's an extra loop on the needle and you knit that like any stitch. And there's your little hole, and your one increased stitch.

This will work better with illustrations, but it goes like this - regular knit stitch, wrap as if you're making a knit stitch, regular knit stitch. The end result is three loops on the right needle, although you've taken only two off the left one.