Truly, I want to reach through the computer and slap all the people saying she'd be better off dead, or they wish she'd been killed instead. Can't they see that with this, there's still hope?
Of course, Science Fiction, anything done can be undone.
I can sort of see the argument that she was assaulted, that she made her decision and was still begging "no, no" even as he did it.
But at the same time, when your brain is boiling in your skull you are not fit to make life-and-death decisions, and the Doctor could hardly stand by idly while she died on his deck knowing that he could save her life.
And besides, you're so right. This can be fixed! She can get her memories back somehow safely... or, and to my mind this is just as likely and good an ending, someone ELSE can show her what the Doctor showed her about herself. It's not like he gave her anything, but that he showed her the way.
In a medical emergency, protocol is that you request permission to help. If they refuse, you stand ready. If they reach the point that they can no longer speak for themself as they are near death, then you can legally step in.
Same laws may not apply, but the underlying meaning does.
She has Wilf, who adores her and knows how amazing she can be. The embodiment of awesome she evolved into was because the Dctor helped trigger that spark- but it was always there inside her. Now dear Wilf has the opportunity to delicately guide her, to trigger that spark in a different way- not to remember the dangerous things, but to spark that sense of wonder, desire to see more, natural curiosity and fearlessness. Who she is is still there, and will find a way out.
I will say the thing that ran through my mind as the doctor was doing it was that it was akin to raping her mind, only she'd never remember it. He removed it from her mind without her consent.
But her brains were already scrambling. She was dying, which means she was not capable of giving informed consent, and he acted to save her life. (I certainly do NOT think she would have been better off dead, especially considering how much work she did on herself between her first and second appearances.)
Jack's overuse of retcon to avoid awkward questions or simply because he says it's "the rules" bothers me a great deal more than the Doctor doing what he had to do in order to make sure that she stayed alive and sane. IMO, Jack is the one committing assault, and on people who have not even been given the chance to know what is happening or why.
The Doctor acted to save her life. That makes a big difference to me.
I think the problem is that the Doctor calls it "mind wiping" but then talks about it more like he's just closed the doorways in her mind to the memories so it's possible that she could remember. So some folks seem to see the first half without seeing the second.
Well, calling it "mind wiping" may be his way of relating it to her family, 'cause if they know it's all still there, they might make the mistake of trying to bring it back.
Besides, memory-wiping a human (in the extended cannon) doesn't really work, as the comic strips in DWM showed "poor mad Jamie" having gotten all of his memories of his time with Two back.
I really like to think that she'll find her inner awesome again, with the help of Wilf and the other companions (if her mum helped with it too, that would be AMAZING).
And we already saw in "Turn Left" that her awesome was definitely still there, and that fantastic circumstances can bring it out, even if the Doctor's got no part in her life.
So we can assume that the next time something really odd or catastrophic happens, her awesome may return!
(Won't Donna's memories be triggered by her friends, though? Everyone else was at her wedding and remembers the Santas and the fact that her fiance died. They wouldn't know not to mention it to her.)
Yeah, I was thinking that myself... There's no way that people won't mention what happened to her six months before... And the doctor would have to have wiped anything even six months prior to that in order to prevent her from remembering Lance, and therefore remembering what came later.
we can assume that the next time something really odd or catastrophic happens, her awesome may return!
Not even something catastrophic if she just gets some support and positive feedback, I think. After all, she did a lot of changing between Runaway Bride and Partners in Crime, and that was all self-directed.
The bit about everyone else remembering - that's just one of the gaping plot holes left.
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winterfish
no subject
Date: 2008-07-06 04:02 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-06 04:23 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-06 04:02 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-06 04:09 am (UTC)Truly, I want to reach through the computer and slap all the people saying she'd be better off dead, or they wish she'd been killed instead. Can't they see that with this, there's still hope?
Of course, Science Fiction, anything done can be undone.
no subject
Date: 2008-07-06 04:22 am (UTC)But at the same time, when your brain is boiling in your skull you are not fit to make life-and-death decisions, and the Doctor could hardly stand by idly while she died on his deck knowing that he could save her life.
And besides, you're so right. This can be fixed! She can get her memories back somehow safely... or, and to my mind this is just as likely and good an ending, someone ELSE can show her what the Doctor showed her about herself. It's not like he gave her anything, but that he showed her the way.
no subject
Date: 2008-07-06 04:41 am (UTC)Same laws may not apply, but the underlying meaning does.
She has Wilf, who adores her and knows how amazing she can be. The embodiment of awesome she evolved into was because the Dctor helped trigger that spark- but it was always there inside her. Now dear Wilf has the opportunity to delicately guide her, to trigger that spark in a different way- not to remember the dangerous things, but to spark that sense of wonder, desire to see more, natural curiosity and fearlessness. Who she is is still there, and will find a way out.
no subject
Date: 2008-07-06 11:45 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-06 05:09 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-06 11:41 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-06 05:44 pm (UTC)That disturbed the crap out of me.
no subject
Date: 2008-07-06 07:18 pm (UTC)Jack's overuse of retcon to avoid awkward questions or simply because he says it's "the rules" bothers me a great deal more than the Doctor doing what he had to do in order to make sure that she stayed alive and sane. IMO, Jack is the one committing assault, and on people who have not even been given the chance to know what is happening or why.
The Doctor acted to save her life. That makes a big difference to me.
no subject
Date: 2008-07-06 05:06 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-06 12:50 pm (UTC)Besides, memory-wiping a human (in the extended cannon) doesn't really work, as the comic strips in DWM showed "poor mad Jamie" having gotten all of his memories of his time with Two back.
no subject
Date: 2008-07-06 05:20 pm (UTC)I really like to think that she'll find her inner awesome again, with the help of Wilf and the other companions (if her mum helped with it too, that would be AMAZING).
And we already saw in "Turn Left" that her awesome was definitely still there, and that fantastic circumstances can bring it out, even if the Doctor's got no part in her life.
So we can assume that the next time something really odd or catastrophic happens, her awesome may return!
(Won't Donna's memories be triggered by her friends, though? Everyone else was at her wedding and remembers the Santas and the fact that her fiance died. They wouldn't know not to mention it to her.)
no subject
Date: 2008-07-06 05:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-06 07:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-06 07:14 pm (UTC)Not even something catastrophic if she just gets some support and positive feedback, I think. After all, she did a lot of changing between Runaway Bride and Partners in Crime, and that was all self-directed.
The bit about everyone else remembering - that's just one of the gaping plot holes left.
no subject
Date: 2008-07-07 11:51 pm (UTC)