A slightly longer ranty comment on American Torchwood

[neadods]

This is in my feedback to Staggering Stories, but I thought I'd elaborate here.

In the announcement that Fox wasn't picking up an American version of Torchwood, it was said that BBC or Davies (or both; I'm unclear on this) was insisting on a 13-episode commitment.

I was cynical about Davies' and Gardener's move here in the first place, and if that announcement is true, I've just lost my last shred of sympathy. Who in their right mind does not research the requirements of their own profession in a new area?

American TV boils down to one of three things:
- 4-6 episode miniseries
- 12 episode midseason replacements or summer series
- 22 episode full seasons.

We don't do 13 episodes here. Our schedules aren't set up for 13 episodes. Our syndication deals aren't set up for 13 episodes. No network is going to change their lineup for a single show - especially one whose best ratings were still, in this country, comparatively tiny.

Comments

[lil-shepherd.livejournal.com]

Not particularly large in the UK, either.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

I thought Children of Earth got great ratings?

[lil-shepherd.livejournal.com]

Good but not great, given the promotion to BBC1, the publicity, which was huge, the broadcast spot and that there wasn't a prestige production opposite on most days.

[tiggerallyn.livejournal.com]

Nea, I don't want to disagree with you, but I have to.

The 22-episode full season order is now sometimes done as a 13-episode order, filled out with a 9-episode order for the "back nine." Glee is a good recent example. (Here's coverage of that.) For another example, here's an article about Chuck getting the "back nine" after the initial 13-episode order. Networks are commissioning more series with 13-episode commitments, and if they're successful then they'll go for the full 22. As I see it, there are things to criticize RTD and Gardner for, but asking for a 13-episode commitment isn't one of them.

For another view on why FOX passed on Torchwood, here's reports that FOX just didn't want to spend the money Torchwood would require. (And non-union personnel? If RTD had caved to that, he'd never work in Hollywood again.)

[taffimai.livejournal.com]

Yes, this.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

The 22-episode full season order is now sometimes done as a 13-episode order

We're still talking about a 22-episode season, just with only part of the money up front. If the show doesn't fly, it will be canceled after a couple of episodes, as many have. And let's face it - they usually do that only to shows that are expected to be canceled.

But demanding to do 13 *and only 13* precludes the idea of then having that back 9. It's still ignoring the way TV is scheduled here.

[violetisblue.livejournal.com]

So he was demanding a thirteen-episode season without the back-nine option? Er...

[neadods.livejournal.com]

That is my understanding. There's a possibility I'm wrong or misinformed, but it fits the news as phrased and the show as it has been and everything I've pieced together about RTD from his own published work and interviews

[violetisblue.livejournal.com]

......because the entire Hollywood system is going to impulsively decide to change how it does things, for him? Rusty, you really are a never-ending source of entertainment, though not necessarily via your writing.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Again, I do not know this for a fact, nor am I clear that it was his idea or the BBC's....

But suffice it to say that from everything I've heard about Writer's Tale, everything I've seen in his interviews (especially the defensive ones), he hasn't heard "no" in a long time.

And I will even admit that he has done some amazingly good things - he did, after all, rehabilitate Who. But Hollywood is NOT kind to its own and less kind to outsiders, and people with egos and a couple of excellent credits to their name are a dime a dozen there.

[bibliofilen.livejournal.com]

Isn't it just a way to say that the network either do 22 eps or they have to pay a forfeit, so to speak, in the form of a thirteenth episode? That last ep might also make them pick it back up later if they're suddenly in need of filling and already have one episode lying around.

What confuses me is the need to do a US version in the first place.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

What confuses me is the need to do a US version in the first place.

Presumably because the BBCA ratings were so good. The problem was, BBCA ratings were only good *for BBCA.* And our schedules are getting pretty saturated in supernatural style shows.

[dune-drd.livejournal.com]

I've just lost my last shred of sympathy

Apart from the fact that they moved to the States for new projects and DOING EXACTLY THE SAME SHOW?

[iko.livejournal.com]

I don't know much about the history of Queer as Folk. I'm now curious about how that series developed from the UK version of the show.

[doyle_sb4.livejournal.com]

I don't think RTD had a lot to do with the development of the US show; I remember an interview at the time where he heavily took the piss out of the name changes (particularly Stuart being renamed to Brian, which has a nerdy/boring connotation in the UK)

[neadods.livejournal.com]

I assume that it, along with the Office and Life on Mars, etc., basically followed some version of "Here's a boatload of cash. I wanna use your general concept."

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Well, there is that. And it's spinoff show, too! Because spinoffs historically do so very well. (I can think of two that flew on their own. But only two.)

[stoplookingup.livejournal.com]

I hadn't heard that US TW was dead. When did that news break?

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Couple days ago. If you go to news.google.com and type Torchwood America, you'll get a couple of episodes.

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

If true, that is COMPLETELY braindead. Completely. Absolutely.

No doubt they wanted 13 eps so they could easily back-import it to the U.K.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

I can imagine the shrieks of laughter at the UK networks when asked to pay for an Americanized version of a native show.

Schedules # of eps.

[olivia-sutton.livejournal.com]

Hi Nea -

I disagree. The cable networks DO do 12 - 16 episodes a season.
Burn Notice Season 1 was 12 eps including the pilot (so 13 episodes),
Burn Notice Season 2 was 16 eps.
Psych seasons 1, 2, & 3 were 16 eps each.
Stargate: Atlantis - season 1 was 18 episodes (inc. A pilot and 2-hr finale so 20 hours),
Seasons 2, 3, and 5 were all 20 episodes long.
"White Collar" just had a premiere season of 14 episodes.
"Castle" premiered on ABC last year with only 10 episodes (and no pilot).
But "The Mentalist" had either 24 or 26 episodes the first season.
"Heroes" had a lot too - except the 16 episode season cut short by the writers strike.
So I don't think a half-season commitment is unreasonable.
What I was MUCH more worried about with an American Torchwood was (a) losing grittiness, (b) problems with characterization - esp. Jack. I mean, can you see a Gay character on FOX? And (c) filming location - Torchwood benefited from filming in grey, rainy Wales.- Can you imagine the show if it was filmed in LA? It wouldn't work. Remember how moving X-files from Vancouver to LA killed the atmosphere of the show?
I was willing to wait & see with an American Torchwood, but I wasn't entirely unhappy to hear the project fell thru'. Maybe CBC Toronto could do it?

Re: Schedules # of eps.

[gonzai55.livejournal.com]

TNT & FX shows usually run 12-13 eps a season as well. There's no such thing as a standard season length when it comes to cable, pay or basic. FOX is not cable, obviously, but 13 eps isn't unheard of for them either. So in terms of season length, that's not an unreasonable request.

Re: Schedules # of eps.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

12-16 isn't 13 on the nose, though - and most of those were initial seasons, when the networks were keeping the option of canceling them at any time.

Grittiness I wouldn't worry about. Grim is in these days; so many shows are dark. But if Jack stayed gay, they'd probably ask him to swish. Or make him specifically gay, as opposed to willing to shag anything.

Remember how moving X-files from Vancouver to LA killed the atmosphere of the show?

Didn't watch X-Files for long, but that move sure didn't do She Wolf of London any favors.

Re: Schedules # of eps.

[olivia-sutton.livejournal.com]

Hi again,

Well, I'll give you - "grittiness is in" 'cause you're right there, but I still can't imagine a US Network doing something even remotely close to "Children of Earth".
But you said all US shows are 22 episodes a season, and it's just not true. Tho' as someone else pointed out most of my examples were from cable. I simply didn't notice that because virtually everything I watch is British or cable/satellite. I find I actually LIKE cable shows better than network shows - there's a certain known quality to a cable network (like USA produces original character-driven light drama).

As to Jack being swish - I'd find that to be offensive. I'd rather have the character straight than swish (even tho' there's also a certain offensive quality to that).

I've been thinking tho' as to who could possibly do an American Torchwood and the only network I can think of is Showtime. First, they've done British shows before, airing "Robin of Sherwood" in the 80's, hosting the US version of Queer as Folk, and currently doing "The Tudors" (plus not being afraid of controversy - airing "Oz" and "Nip/Tuck" or was that HBO?).
Now - I don't GET Showtime currently, but I'd either do a temp. Pass, buy the DVDs straight out, or watch it on 101 (DirectTV's free special events cannel).

The only other channel I can think of to do Torchwood would be Logo - and they have NO money, and despite running re-runs of "Buffy - the Vampire Slayer" don't understand SF.

--Olivia