Liveblogging The Pandorica Opens

[neadods]

WD reaction post: < lj user="neadods"> < a href="http://neadods.livejournal.com/990306.html">liveblogs the episode

Before I even watch, I will say one thing: No matter what I think of this episode, it is a bit lovely to know that this isn't going to be a retread of "The Doctor Fights a Bunch of Daleks And Then He Regenerates and/or Loses His Companion."

And then I watched.

First up, while I have a preference for the subtle arcs like Bad Wolf suddenly meaning something, it is nice to see that there haven't been any throwaway episodes. One way or another, it's all going to fit together.

Preferring older River, I would have liked to see her in a time period before/well after jail, but too much of it had been made during her previous episodes. However, whatever has happened seems to be happening after she committed murder, so I guess we won't know why or who.

LIZ 10 AND RIVER SONG! SQUEEEEEEEEEEE! I would totally watch a show about the two of them. Although Lizzie - y'all are letting your collection go to wrack and ruin, the way things are hanging out of their frames, piled upside down, etc. Have a little pride, your maj! (We will not discuss how easily River tore that painting down. Handwave, handwave, handwave.)

Aww, is that all we're gonna see of Liz? Ripoff!

"I said off the wrist." *snort!* I assume when I get back in the wide world of online everyone will be speculating about which handsome Time Agent that was.

TOTALLY loving "the very first words in recorded history." River, you have got style! (Although that was the dullest diamond cliff, wasn't it?) And what is that Amy said? I've watched three times and can't catch it.

"Invasion of the hot Italians." I'm betting that's not what they thought at the time, but *snort*!

"Cleopatra will see you now." River, you have style with style sauce and whipped chutzpah on top. I really have to go download bewarethespork's gay for River icon; Alex Kingston is totally knocking this out of the park. I particularly appreciate the smeared lipstick on the poor guy's face.

I also assume that when I get back online, there are going to be 1000 icons of that painting. *takes snapshot*

Matt Smith/his stuntman can't ride. Don't flail your hands around, there's a mouth at the other end of those reins!

The Confidential will tell me how they got to film at Stonehenge, I'm sure. Looking forward to it.

OMGWTFCYBERHEAD???!

Watch it with the torch, Matt. I hear the stuff they make fake spiderwebs out of catches fire real easy.

Y'know, even if I hadn't been spoiled for who was inside, that "nameless, terrible thing like fire and ice and rage" speech would have made me know exactly who it had to be.

"I hate good wizards in fairy tales. They always turn out to be him." Marry me, River. *thinks back over Who canon* Pretty much yeah.

"Have we met?" *SNORT!*

Oh, fuck, Daleks. DID YOU NOT HEAR ME SAYING HOW DAMNED GLAD I WAS THERE WOULD BE NO DAMN DALEKS IN THE FINALE, MOFFAT? CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW? No, I will not be mollified by a retread of dalek/cyberman smack talk.

"Run where?" "Fight how?" Good questions!

Whoops! Unexpected armed Caesar! Wait... now I have to go Google, because isn't he dead now too?

"Where do I come from. You're all barbarians now." ILU, River.

"A friend of mine." Good. I'm glad to put an end to Tin Dog Syndrome - even though I hope we're not putting an end to Rory. That "If something can be remembered" is a tiny tendril of hope.

"You know how sometimes I have really brilliant ideas? Sorry. LOOK AT ME, I'M A TARGET!" Oh, Doctor, never change!

It says something about me that I've rewatched Amy and the cyberhead 3x... so I can try to get some detail on Amy's wristwarmers. (I'm trying to figure out if they're reusing bits of Rose's costume or if they're new. New, looks like.) Which is kind of a pitiful way of spending what's actually a cool and scary scene.

"Hello Amy"? HELLO AMY? I'd been spoiled for the Roman soldier (it's impossible not to see spoiler pictures if you're doing any of the newsletters) but I'd thought he was a reincarnation or something. It's really Rory!? Rory's not dead?! *Kermitflail of joy*

"I know that, Rory, not exactly one to miss the obvious." *snort* And right when everyone's expecting a big welcome back scene (including poor Rory!) And then we get the most hilarious welcome back scene possible: "I died and turned into a Roman. It's very distracting." We've got to keep Rory around because those two actors work together so very, very well.

Hmmmm... because Rory the Nurse was erased from history, does this mean that Amy's latent love has brought him back as her fantasy Hot Italian Invader?

"Remember every black day I ever stopped you and then, and then! Do the smart thing and let somebody else try first." I love that speech (and yeah, so totally clear who's in the Pandorica now.)

BUT! Hate to say it, Eleven fans, I don't think Matt delivered that with anywhere near the gravitas that Eccleston or Tennant would have. He sounds like he's announcing a footie game (and flailing around way too much). I've reached the point where I'm finally liking the show a lot but I'm lukewarm at best over the lead actor... a position I've been in rather a lot, if you add up all my fandoms.

River smacking the monitor reminded me - we've never seen the Doctor hit the TARDIS. Not once, and certainly not with the selection of mallets Ten had hanging off the console.

WHOSE VOICE WAS THAT? It sounded like Davros saying "Silence will fall"! Not the Dream Lord (who I kind of expected). Y'know - arguably "silence will fall" talks about the season coming to an end - the show will be silenced. At least until Christmas.

OMG, OMG, O!M!G! Fake soldiers from Amy's memory? Rory becoming a centurion because of a costume? O!!M!!G!! Rory's reacting to whatever's taking over the soldiers!

AUTONS!!!! (Okay, I'm squeeing a bit.)

This is proper storytelling, this is, I'm at the edge of my seat... although if Amy can talk Rory out of being an Auton like she talked the dalek bomb out of exploding, I'm going to feel a bit cheated. That was extremely handwavy the first time.

Oh, fuck, Daleks. I'm leaning back in the seat again and rolling my eyes. I! Am! So! TIRED! Of! Dalek! Finales!

Oh, shit, I thought the Doctor came out of the box. I didn't realize he was going in.

Rory just the hell WHAT? Didn't I see this on an episode of Torchwood?

Oh, shit, that final shot!

I must say, that is the most proper cliffhangery cliffhanger ever hung off a cliff!

Comments

[ponygirl72.livejournal.com]

I must say, that is the most proper cliffhangery cliffhanger ever hung off a cliff!

Yes. Yes it is. And I, for one, am reveling in the idea that there's a greater than 50% chance the resolution will actually make sense and be internally consistent. :-D

Also, is it just me, or did this episode have higher than average porn potential? I'm counting the minutes until the first River/Liz X fic starts popping up.

I mean, seriously-- I'm nominally straight, happily married for more than a decade, and I couldn't pry my eyes away from River's cleavage in that scene to save my life. O_o

[neadods.livejournal.com]

there's a greater than 50% chance the resolution will actually make sense and be internally consistent.

Yes, we do seem to be past the point of handwaving the Big Bad Must Never Happen from last episode away with a minor plot point this episode.

I want River/Liz. Preferably adventures, as femmeslash doesn't ring my bells, but yes - Alex has a fabulous cleavage and she's not afraid to use it, is she?

[ladyfox7oaks.livejournal.com]

Is there even going to BE a Confidential this week? They usually have that voice over at the end, and I didn't hear anything... then again, I was still gawping like a landed FISH, so my brain might not have caught it...

[neadods.livejournal.com]

There's a confidential. I've already *cough* obtained it.

[ladyfox7oaks.livejournal.com]

Yeah, waiting for my eyepatched friends now, actually...

[wendymr.livejournal.com]

BUT! Hate to say it, Eleven fans, I don't think Matt delivered that with anywhere near the gravitas that Eccleston or Tennant would have. He sounds like he's announcing a footie game (and flailing around way too much). I've reached the point where I'm finally liking the show a lot but I'm lukewarm at best over the lead actor...

YES. (Well, except for the bit about liking it *g*)

As for the iDaleks, as soon as I saw the 'new and improved' Daleks in ep 3 I knew they'd be in the finale. I didn't realise Moffat was going to do one better than Rusty and throw in everything including the kitchen sink.

My guess on the resolution? Well, we've already been told that time can be rewritten. I'm betting on the Dallas solution.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

I didn't realise Moffat was going to do one better than Rusty and throw in everything including the kitchen sink.

Given the choice, I prefer the kitchen sink to "daleks x 100 from the last finale," especially as I'm quite confident that this won't end with the Doctor angsting about being parted from Amy/Donna/Rose/Jack. (Martha was the only one who got a non-Dalek finale. That's quite refreshing in retrospect.) That said, I really wish there had been no daleks because I'm bloody bored of them!

I'd also like it if whatever retrospect timeline deals with the loose threads flapping from previous episodes, like Liz 10's police state and killer alien crawfish in a Venice canal.

I seriously doubt he'll Dallas out of it. This is all clicking together; it's not going to handwave a resolution out of thin air for no reason.

[tempestsarekind.livejournal.com]

Amy's saying "vavoom," I believe.

As for Matt Smith and gravitas: different strokes, I suppose. I like that Eleven isn't as shouty as Nine or Ten; it's just not his thing. (Which is not to say that those moments with Nine and Ten weren't enjoyable--although sometimes I did want Ten to turn it down a notch, especially in season 2.) Conversely, I thought the scene when he was being put into the Pandorica was brilliant: Ten would have shouted and raged, but Eleven wept and pleaded, genuinely scared for the universe.

As for Daleks: I'm with you on the eyerolling. One of the big things I'm worried about is that the finale is going to turn into a standard battle--because once you put all that firepower into place, you have to get rid of it somehow-- and I'll be massively disappointed.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

I don't mind the not shouty; I mind that when he does need to shout, he doesn't convince me. Tennant could do Oncoming Storm with a glance (I'll argue that much of his silent acting was far more intense than most of his dialog, especially when shouting). And Eccleston could drip menace.

It's all YMMV... but my mileage is crapping out.

Yes, Ten would have raged. But Nine would have played it much the same, IMO. And I thought Matt did a good job there. It's when he shouts that he loses me completely. He does alien, he does comedy, but I just don't think he does menace enough to scare a cat off a cushion.

I hope there isn't a battle. Like you, I'd feel completely let down if it's just a standard shoot-em-up.

[tempestsarekind.livejournal.com]

I see what you mean. For me it's that I haven't felt yet like he needs to be menacing in that grandstanding sort of way (I think he does quiet menace well)? Like, he drops the microphone just before he gets up there on that rock, so the "heroic" moment is already undercut, and he uses the fact that he's the Doctor, not the fact that he's the Oncoming Storm, to get them all to back off. It's more "okay, yeah, I don't look like much, but you know what I can do" rather than in-the-moment terrifying. But that's how I see Eleven as a whole, so I go into scenes like that not expecting him to hit that note. I'm sure that changes things.

[promethia_tenk]

Here from Who_Daily :-)

>>I go into scenes like that not expecting him to hit that note.

This is exactly why that scene worked for me. He was grandstanding--or at least trying to--and 1) it felt a bit desperate and fumbled 2) he knew all he was doing was buying some time 3) if at that point you suspect where all this is going, the dramatic irony is horribly painful--he's talking himself up for the ultimate fall.

I felt heartbroken for him in that scene.

[tempestsarekind.livejournal.com]

Yes! I didn't suspect where things were going (I rarely do), but I watched the episode again, and that scene really got me on the second viewing. He knows at the time that it's only going to get him half an hour or so, but he's also proving just how dangerous he is. Ouch.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Hello! Pull up a chair and make yourself welcome.

As for me and Eleven... I like him most of the times but I just... can't find quite the right words, actually. After all the angst of the last two Doctors I was so ready for things to get lighter, but I'm just not having the emotional reaction I would have if the previous two actors did the same scene. Ten would have been foaming at the mouth; Nine would have made me feel his fear more.

YMMV, as in all things, obviously. Although it's not helping that Eccleston has been my favorite of them all, and I still miss him deeply!

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

I am SO very gay for River (even more gay than I was after her earlier two parter!)

I'm not at all convinced there's going to be a big shoot up between the allied aliens. I have a strong feeling Moffat's subtler than that...

[neadods.livejournal.com]

I'm not convinced there's going to be a shootup either - I think they all just got wiped out of time!

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

LOL Well that'd be neat!

[tiggerallyn.livejournal.com]

I agree with Nea; the alliance just un-happened itself.

I expounded upon that last night, as only a comic book nerd can do. :)

Even RTD never did a cliffhanger this intense. Amy is dead. The TARDIS is destroyed. The Doctor is imprisoned (and possibly never ever existed, depending on how certain dialogue is interpreted). The universe itself goes silent.

To quote Murray Gold, "Moffat, what have you done?"

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

Ooh! I'll go and have a read, though I know very little about comic books!

[tiggerallyn.livejournal.com]

Don't worry, I explain everything you need to know. :)

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

Yay! \O/

[faireraven.livejournal.com]

BUT! Hate to say it, Eleven fans, I don't think Matt delivered that with anywhere near the gravitas that Eccleston or Tennant would have. He sounds like he's announcing a footie game (and flailing around way too much). I've reached the point where I'm finally liking the show a lot but I'm lukewarm at best over the lead actor... a position I've been in rather a lot, if you add up all my fandoms.

You know... I was just telling the hubby last night that I love the storytelling better with 11, but 11 just doesn't cut it for me the same way 10 and 9 did. Moff is so much more intricate and subtle than RTD was and it's wonderful... But 11 just keeps reminding me of a scared teenager in many respects.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

A little self-doubt is a good thing - it's something I loved about Nine and missed in Ten - but yeah. Matt's just not pulling off the underlying gravitas; his inexperience is making him come across as a kid at all the wrong times. wendymr said it was like watching a 15-year-old play Hamlet and I tend to agree with her.

[faireraven.livejournal.com]

Oh, and you and the husband both called it on who was going to be in the box.

But I find the surprise for both of you to be amusing that neither one of you thought he was going to be shoved IN to the box!

And now I am curious as to whether River did things the way she did intentionally, or if she was shoved into doing so by circumstances.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

To be fair, I saw a spoiler picture of him all trussed up. But I seriously thought that meant two Doctors.

River, I think, is working without a plan, which means circumstances.

[faireraven.livejournal.com]

Husband thought it was due to periodic references to someone's worst nightmares being in there... And if the entirety of all of the enemies the doctor had ever made were out there, then who was their worst nightmare?

I actually thought there would be another version of the doctor (later version) in there, too, not that they were going to take him and string him up.

River saying "Sorry Sweetie" at the very end makes me wonder what she was apologizing for... She said it when she looked out the door and saw the pandorica.

I'm still wondering how they're planning on resolving the Rory thing, though. He's "out of time", effectively, because he "never existed". So if all of these things were based on Amy's past and childhood (the books could still be found in her room, which is where they could have gotten these things from), and not on a direct contact with her mind (which I wonder how they would have done so to begin with), then how would they know about Rory? Maybe I missed something (we were watching the episode from a plane at 10K feet, and missed a few lines due to not being able to hear them over the jet engines), but how did Rory get plucked out of her memory if she doesn't remember him in a section of her brain accessible to herself, let alone anyone else? How would they have known enough about him to create him? And how would he be generated with his own memories if he never existed in time? The doctor is a special case in remembering him, because of what he is. But if Amy can't remember Rory, then how did they re-create Rory, complete with memories of Amy?

All right, I'm both confused and highly parenthetical today. ;)

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Wibbly wobbly, timey wimey...