Question for non-Stateside readers

[neadods]

I'm looking for the name of that type of restaurant that serves fast, homestyle local food; it probably has a dish described or named "Mama's" or "Grandma's."

In America, it's the diner.
In Britain, the pub.
In France, the bistro.
In Italy, the trattoria.

What is it called in your neck of the world?

Comments

[bewarethespork.livejournal.com]

Closest thing I can think of in Australia is the milk bar, which is like a fast food-ish equivalent of what you're describing.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

The mental image "milk bar" gives me is a little O.o. I'm imagining 101 kinds of milkshake!

[bewarethespork.livejournal.com]

It's more like...a little corner store (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_bar), actually. But some of them are a bit like a cafe in that they have tables for people to sit and eat at. The ones I know best were of the latter type, which is why I thought of them as the closest equivalent to a diner that Australia has.

[17catherines.livejournal.com]

Interesting - none of the milk bars in my area (Melbourne, inner northern suburbs) would have much food made on the premises other than sandwiches. I'd have gone with cafe, I think.

[bewarethespork.livejournal.com]

I think it varies from place to place. In the larger cities I've lived in, they're more like corner stores, but when I lived in rural NSW, the local milk bar was also the fish and chips shop, and it also sold dim sims and chicken schnitzel and that sort of thing. I was going to say cafe originally, but where I am at the moment (Townsville, North Queensland), a cafe is a coffee shop/tea house and not all of them also have a decent meal selection.

[17catherines.livejournal.com]

See, that would be a tea shop around here, if there was such a thing, which there isn't (we aren't a tea shop sort of suburb)!

When I lived in Adelaide, they called their milk bars delis, but basically they were somewhere between a milk bar and a fish and chip shop - sometimes they'd have pies and sausage rolls and sandwiches, sometimes fish and chips and burgers, sometimes just milk and icecreams and sweets and packets of chips. Nothing there that I'd expect to find at a deli in Melbourne, though.

But I've never lived anywhere rural, so that would be the difference.

[bewarethespork.livejournal.com]

We have a few cafes here that just do coffee and other drinks, and some that do drinks plus cakes/biscuits/slices/sweets. Then there are the cafes that are almost small restaurants in that they have full menus. But both of those are completely different from the milk bars I knew when I lived in rural areas, or indeed the milk bars we have in Townsville, which are much more like small corner stores for the most part (though we have the fish and chip shop variant here too in some of the suburbs). "Deli" to me means a place that sells meats and cheeses and things.

[17catherines.livejournal.com]

That's what I'd expect at a deli, too...

[inamac.livejournal.com]

Um, actually, in Britain (or at least England) it would be called 'The Caff' (but spelt 'Cafe').

[steviesun.livejournal.com]

Although many don't like being called that (I think my grandparent's cafe would have fit the description but they were terribly proud and hated it being called a caff).

[inamac.livejournal.com]

I expect that they, and their patrons, would have been more likely to use the actual name of the place (or its owners) rather than the generic 'Cafe'.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Pubs are a stand-alone sort of beast, then? Or just a tourist thing, at least when you're eating?

[inamac.livejournal.com]

There are dozens of different kinds of pubs. The main purpose of a pub is to serve beer (to adults over 16), but most serve food to some extent - though that ranges from 'two pints of lager and a packet of crisps' via 'two curled sandwiches on the bar', through 'family' pubs (which is probably the sort you're thinking of - basic, usually microwaved, meals - though how 'fast' they are depends on how busy the bar staff are selling drinks), to 'gastro-pubs' - many of which are operated by Five-Star chefs and have to be booked in advance.

None of these would serve anything called "Mama's" or "Grandma's" though you might find the 'Publican's Special' at a family pub.

Actually, for the most part, the British define eating places by the cuisine rather than the building (I'm going out for a Chinese/Indian/Italian/Greek/chippie/kebab house...)

[wendymr.livejournal.com]

Well, in the north-west of England, where I used to live - North Staffs, Cheshire, North Shropshire - pubs serving food served pretty decent food. Not gourmet-book-in-advance sort, but definitely not microwaved either. They had a full kitchen and served from a full menu, where a lot of the food would have been prepared in advance but still came out piping hot and delicious.

Our local favourites don't seem to have websites, but here's a detailed TripAdvisor review for a pub five minutes' walk from where we used to live and the food from which we loved:

White Hart.

So if you're looking for quick 'n' cheap diner-type food, a café may be the best equivalent to a diner - but I certainly wouldn't equate a diner with a trattoria or bistro, just as I wouldn't with a pub! I consider diner food to be much lower in quality, mass-produced, frequently microwaved from frozen and very much short-order food. An old-style family restaurant in the US might be closer to the pub/bistro thing, but not a chain restaurant (Bob Evans, Cracker Barrel etc) - you just don't get many chain restaurants in Europe, and those that do exist are considered inferior - the Little Chef/Happy Eater type, for example, which is closer to a US diner or chain family restaurant.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

but not a chain restaurant (Bob Evans, Cracker Barrel etc)

Trust me, the chain food here isn't much better. But it gives me pointers for the *kind* of thing I'm actually looking for - fast, cheap, easy, relatively decent (when not made en masse in advance) food. I want to expand my cooking repertoire, and I'm a lot more likely to learn how to do scotch eggs and croque madame, etc., than I am celebrity or higher-end foods.

Knowing what kind of word to search for - cafe, carinderia, bistro - gives me the direction to search.

Watching the Brit side of the discussion evolve is a bit like watching Americans draw the lines between truck stop, diner, and steakhouse... but in the end, it just gives me three new terms to search, y'know?

If I get 12 terms, I'll pick one per month next year. :D

[wendymr.livejournal.com]

That's what I meant: chain restaurant food is not associated with good quality. I know there are exceptions - Olive Garden etc - but I'd never compare a chain diner/family restaurant/breakfast eatery with a decent pub or bistro, whether in the UK or north America. Ever :)

[neadods.livejournal.com]

for the most part, the British define eating places by the cuisine rather than the building

So do we... but "diner" is a cuisine around here. For lack of a better description, it's "generican" cuisine.

What I'm trying to do is find key terms to search on/search for books about to expand my cooking range. I've got a bistro book, y'see, and know I can find a pub one...

[wheresmycow.livejournal.com]

Here in the Philippines, it's carinderia or turo-turo (Tagalog, literally "point-point" where you basically point at whatever you want being cooked right in front of you and it's served up straightaway.)

(Interesting short history of the carinderia here.)

[neadods.livejournal.com]

That is an interesting story!

Step 2 is actually finding recipes; thanks for letting me know both names so I can Google 'em both.

[nnwest.livejournal.com]

Central/Eastern Iowa - it's a mom-n-pop or a diner. Or a truck stop. Depends a little on the type of food and proximity to the interstate.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

and proximity to the interstate

Between thee and me, the only difference between a diner and a truck stop is proximity to the interstate and size of the parking lot.

[nnwest.livejournal.com]

Agreed.

[bentleywg.livejournal.com]

A diner usually doesn't have shower facilities. Truck stops often do.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

That makes a lot of sense, but took my head somewhere I didn't want it to go.

[tacnukesoul.livejournal.com]

Well, wherever I go it's called the "Chow Hall," though the new kids call it the D-FAC (short for Dining FACility).

Also, while they do have dishes named after Mama or Grandma, unless she's a male foreign national from South Asia, she probably doesn't work there.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

:P The ultimate goal of this exercise is to get types of cheap, fast, international recipes to add to my repertoire. Mess Hall Chow is not going to make the list!

[zinelady.livejournal.com]

In New Zealand, it is usually a Cafe. But if you really want true New Zealand local food, you'd go to the Takeaway. You don't eat it on the premises unless you are eating Fish n Chips on the bench out front. Occasionally, they will have a table or two inside or a picnic table outside.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

I need to add "cafe" to my search list, though. I'm looking for types of recipes to add to my cooking repertoire.

[zinelady.livejournal.com]

I've been looking for a pumpkin soup recipe. If you come upon a really good one, please pass it on.

Kiwis eat a lot of cooked pumpkin, but not sweet pumpkin pie like we do. They roast it, steam it, make it in soups, etc.

I've been experimenting with making pumpkin soup that doesn't have cream.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

I'll let you know, although I'm not usually looking. Not a big fan of pumpkin.

[17catherines.livejournal.com]

Here's my recipe: http://17catherines.livejournal.com/818453.html

No cream (vegan, in fact), and requires only about 15 minutes in the kitchen (though more time in the oven). It is a little on the oniony side, which I like, but if you aren't fond of roast onion flavour, you might remove some from the recipe.

[dune-drd.livejournal.com]

Germans usually call it 'Bistro', too. We love foreign words ;)

There are a few more obscure German names, I just don't remember them right now.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

*snorts with amusement at icon* Thanks! Bistro it is - I shall probably google "German bistro" just to see what happens... and if I can read the result!

[dune-drd.livejournal.com]

The distinction between Bistro and the German pub, the 'Kneipe' isn't very defined - Kneipe usually offers more alcoholic drinks while Bistros concentrate on the food - some intermediate is the German 'Café'... it's very confusing

[tebasile7.livejournal.com]

Hi,
delurking for hopefully helpful comment... ;-)
(mostly here for Whostuff)

I think a Bistro in Germany is rather something that does not want to be old-fashioned ;-) and has more international than local food (even if there is some on the menu).

Pub I would translate with "Kneipe" but it really is more for drink than food, but there a those where you can eat quite well.

The overall term I think is "Gaststätte" which means literally "place for guests", there are variations like "Gasthaus" , "Gasthof" or local terms usually to do with what is served or where the place is (one I like to go to when I'm home is called "zur Linde" and also has a small brewery that is called "Lindenbräu" after the tree in question.
The smaller ones also use the ending "-stube" which means one room whiole the others mean the whole house.

"Lokal" is another overall term that gets used mostly in terms like "Stammlokal" which menas it is the main place where a specific group of people usually go to eat and meet.


I hope this is not too confusing but it really depends on where you are , in a city most will call themselves "Bistro" while you will find fewer of those in rural areas and there are regional differences as well.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Hi there! I shall try to have you a big Whopost tonight or tomorrow.

That's not confusing at all - and as I only know about 10 words in German, it's REALLY helpful! I'm trying to look up new kinds of recipes - now I just hope that if I use the German terms I'll get something I can translate!

[tebasile7.livejournal.com]

Ok, your looking for recipes not a linguistic lecture ;-)

I think this about what you are looking for:

http://www.thelifeingermany.com/2007/08/how-to-make-flammkuchen-and-quark.html


Flammkuchen is actually more Alsace/France than Baden/Germany but you get everywhere in that South-West border region.

This is the basic classic type, there are numerous variations including sweet ones with apples and cinnamon on pure creme fraiche (often flambéed with Calvados) a good vegetarian one is with (fresh) mushrooms and chives.

Garlic and /or cheese is often added too.

The best way to eat is actually to go with a group of people to Alsace and order yourself through the menu, trying every type there is before closing with the sweet one.

But first make sure who will drive back first as there will be lots of wine. ;-)

I just found it has a wiki entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarte_flamb%C3%A9e

With a link to a recipe too:

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cookbook:Flammekueche


Looking forward to Whostuff :-)

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Ok, your looking for recipes not a linguistic lecture ;-)

In the long run, yes. I want to expand my range... but not into the 100-ingredient, 5-sticks-of-butter, 3-hours-in-the-kitchen kind of thing. Fast and cheap and good, that's what I want!

Thanks for the links. As for Who, I'm still waiting to *cough* see it.

[tebasile7.livejournal.com]

As for Who, I'm still waiting to *cough* see it.


So was I was I when I posted (was quite happy to have something to distrect me from waiting ;-)) and meant all the Whostuff. ;-)

Perhaps I'll manage to comment there too (mostly I'm to confused to) ;-)

If you need something for your recipes translated just ask. :-)