Humor about writing with a PMSy rant attached.

[neadods]

An alternate rant and humor link.

First, the funny. elainemc found this: the hilarious (and blasphemous) The Book of Fanfic (Chapters 1 & 2 in comments). "21: And, lo, too late did He start to regret that He had not used a beta during the Creation."

Put down any drinkables and swallow before reading Chapter 2, verse 17. You have been warned.

Second, the rant. This all came about when someone got their knickers in a knot that people picked on fanfic. Which is the way of the world, as far as I'm concerned - most of my favorite humor is sarcastic and/or editorial and all humor like that is picking on something.

However, the original ranter abundantlyqueer hit many of my hot buttons in the original rant. Snipped from the original (which is linked in the wank rebuttal):

creativity, sexuality, sensuality, and the urge to tell stories are some the best, most precious, most awe-inspiring features of the human spirit. every human spirit. even if that human spirit doesn't know how to construct a friggin' sentence to your satisfaction. don't you dare step on that. this is almost entirely a community of women, and y'know what? we have enough of the friggin' world shitting on us and stepping on us and telling us we're not good enough. we don't need to hear it from each other.

laughing at someone else's fic does nothing to convince me of your intelligence, education, or ability as a writer. [snip]

I love this fandom, and I love the people who contribute, every single one of them, and so help me god if I ever see you shitting on that, don't bother asking if you can come stay in my house and eat my food. and you better believe, I'll minimize the shit out of the level of interaction I have with you.

I literally have PMS right now, so it's putting an edge on an already not-always-sweet temper.

Abundantly? Hon?

Get the fuck over it.

You're right on one part. Creativity and the urge to tell stories ARE some of the most precious features of the human spirit. Truely. I love creativity, I adore a good story. Finding one, however, is like panning for gold in the Pacific with a thimble.

I do not love any random set of words vomited out by someone's keyboard. Between my years in fandom and my months reviewing, I have read some shit that would make you want to bleach your brain, and it was NOT creative, it was NOT sexual, sensitive, precious, or awe-inspiring. In a few cases, it wasn't even recognizably a story. To quote an old humor routine, "That's not writing, that's just typing."

And I am not going to keep silent for the sisterhood, sweetie. Because we demean ourselves and our talents when we equate any awfulness with Austen, blather with Bronte, crap with Chaucer, dreck with Dickens, execrable with Elliot or shit with Shakespeare. To do so suggests that we are too stupid to know the difference. To accept it from ourselves is to suggest that we are not capable of doing better. There are a whole bunch of female authors who would beg to differ, my dear. If saying "anything you type is wonderful and anyone who disagrees should STFU" is your notion of feminism, then turn in your vote, slap on your lipstick, and climb back up on that pedestal so the rest of us can get ON with our lives.

I don't care what this makes you think of my intelligence, education, or writing ability. Tangle with the first two, it's going to be graduate degrees at 20 paces. Tangle with the last and... well, which one of us is familiar enough with the keyboard that we understand the concept of the "shift key" anyway?

As for the final threat, after I stop not shaking in my shoes at the idea of being ignored by the ignoble, I'm going to turn your anger right around. It's MY fandom too. You and your wanky little l33t-speakers flooding it with your masterbation-as-writing-exercise stories are serving the exact same purpose as the pokeweed in my garden - crowding out the good and the beautiful by out-multiplying and strangling it.

Don't expect me to play nice. And don't worry, I don't need to eat your food. I have my own food and my own house. I pay for them by writing.

Comments

[jeff-morris.livejournal.com]

Preach it, sister. Preach it. :)

JSM

[lagilman]

*applause*

[kradical.livejournal.com]

*more applause*

[tchwrtr.livejournal.com]

Amen, amen!

From one "write to eat" writer to another, well done.

And I love your alliteration in the comparisons.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Someday I shall go back and edit it to only mention female authors, but I was on a roll.

[tchwrtr.livejournal.com]

Never mess with a roll--they tend to be backed with real emotions, and those emotions show.

Thus one of my favorite poems I have written was about what I wanted frm my Grandmother's house and couldn't have--like the small of the pantry, the sound of the door slamming on the breezeway, and the feel of the grass out back between your toes.

As the Man Said...

[tacnukesoul.livejournal.com]

Bluto: What?! Over? Did you say over? NOTHING is over until WE decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? HELL, NO!

Otter: Germans?

Boon: Forget it, he's rolling.

[mistressrenet.livejournal.com]

*came here from your comment*

NO. Don't. Because we Austen and Co. can stand shoulder-to-shoulder with the guys and it's crap to ghettoize them in any way.

Also, AMEN.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Not to ghettoize, but to point out just how MANY famous female authors there are who have triumphed over far harder slings and arrows than fandom wank. I like wordplay, even in my rants.

I could change Chaucer to Christie - it would even alliterate a little better - but have to confess I'm stumped for a famous female "D" author. And since I adore the phrase "shit for Shakespeare" I'd have to cut the list after Elliot and change the next sentence to "To do so suggests that we are too stupid to know the difference between shit and Shakespeare."

But going back to edit now seems such a bother, admittedly. I've certainly made my point!

[mistressrenet.livejournal.com]

Mmm. That's true. Dorothy L. Sayers, I almost said, and then remembered...er, no. Too many Japanese books have killed my ability to alphabatize!

Yes, you have, and a good point it was.

[elasg.livejournal.com]

*Stands and claps*

While I'll agree anyone has the right to write whatever he or she wants, I also have the right to read what I want. These 'masturbation-as-writing-exercise stories' interfere with my right to read good stories for exactly the reasons Nea so eloquently points out.

badfic

[zinelady.livejournal.com]

I'm one of the voices in the wilderness Chapter 2 vs 9. Personally, I get no enjoyment either reading or commenting on badfic. If I start something that is bad, I hit that little back key or if it's really bad, I go clean out my brain with a toothbrush. I would do the same thing if I came upon someone mocking someone else's fic. There are a lot more enjoyable things to be reading as far as I'm concerned.

Re: badfic

[neadods.livejournal.com]

I would do the same thing if I came upon someone mocking someone else's fic.

In all honesty, I have to say a fair number of the posts in this journal are bashing books I'm reviewing... which is pretty much another version of mocking someone else's fic.

Re: badfic

[jeff-morris.livejournal.com]

Yes, but you're getting *paid* for mocking, you lucky person, you.

JSM

Re: badfic

[lagilman]

I used to get paid to mock badfic... but we kept it within the confines of the office. ;-)

Re: badfic

[neadods.livejournal.com]

How I wish. RtE doesn't pay. I do get oodles of free books, though, some of which are readable.

Re: badfic

[jeff-morris.livejournal.com]

I view free books as a payment of sorts. Unfortunately, if they all suck you can't say, "Well, I kinda sorta made $x.xx because I would have bought that book had I not gotten it for free."

My one sale bought Red and I a steak dinner. So it was money well earned. :)

JSM

Re: badfic

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Fortunately, they don't all suck. And I've discovered some new authors/series worth the knowing. I've gotten a couple of books I would have bought regardless as well.

Plus, I get a published corpus; I'm quite up front about wanting to parlay this into something bigger, and it's a nice foot in the door to say "I'm a regular reviewer for" rather than "Gimme a job, I'm good."

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

Nice comeback!

Though I have to say that personally, I think mocking bad fanfic is a waste of time and effort. Why dignify the really bad stuff with comment at all? An echoing silence will probably do more to discourage the awful writers than any amount of mockery, which can always be translated (by the recipient) into, "I'm an ARTIST and they just don't UNDERSTAND me!"[1] The ones who are capable of learning from politely-phrased constructive criticism will, and the others are lost causes anyhow.

[1] To which my response tends to be this... which, I might note, is on one of the faculty office doors at the High School for the Performing and Visual Arts in Houston.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Love the bumpersticker!

If only it were just echoing silence. Instead, it's usually a yapping chorus of "you're so great, yay!" "more more more 11one1!!" that just feeds the urge to continue to literarily masturbate in public.

[nycdeb.livejournal.com]

have I told you lately how MUCH I adore you :-)

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Feel free to say that regularly. :>

[neadods.livejournal.com]

I finally decided I should have the brass ovaries to talk to her rather than snark on my own safe territory. This is what I posted in her LJ:

Answered also in my own LJ. Feel free to respond.

this is almost entirely a community of women, and y'know what? we have enough of the friggin' world shitting on us and stepping on us and telling us we're not good enough. we don't need to hear it from each other

It does women's rights and women's talents and women's dreams no good to say "whatever you do is wonderful and we shall be uncritical about it." I've been reading and writing fanfiction for close to 30 years, I write for a living and I review for a hobby. I guarantee that not everything women write is good or even readable. And to tell us that we have to be nice out of sisterhood is to denigrate women writers. It is to say "Women can't tell the difference between good and bad writing. Women can't strive to become better. Women can't take rejection and rise above it."

Some ladies named Austen, Bronte, Burnett, Stowe, Alcott, Christie, Wharton, Radcliffe, and Barton - just to name a very few who lived in a time when women were to Shut Up, wear pretty clothes, and never touch pen to paper - would beg to differ.

[kefiraahava.livejournal.com]

*applause* And unfortunately, the kind of uncritical response this poster wants is what certain types of male critics use as ammunition to deride women's writing. "See, they can't TAKE criticism. They can't even WRITE SENTENCES. So why should we let those silly girls play in the Male Halls of Literature?"

I don't read fanfic (just never got into it, thus no judgment of it implied on my part), so I don't know the rules of the fanfic world. Is there a clearly delineated division between people in the fanfic world who just really want to write about X characters in Y fandom and may not care about improving their writing per se, and people who want to/do write professionally who are having fun with X characters in Y fandom as well as trying to improve their writing by working with familiar characters as a jumping-off point? Serious question.

[mistressrenet.livejournal.com]

YES to the first half of your comment.

As to the second half, there's a range, as you might expect. There are people who want to/do write professionally who are having fun and improving skills, there are people who constantly whinge that this is 'just fun' and they don't care about such niceties as spelling, grammar or intelligiblity, and people who see fanfic as a hobby, but a hobby they take very seriously. One of my best online friends and fanfic authors has no interest in writing professionally at all but she cares very deeply about the fanwork she creates. You can guess what I think about the people who think that all their work is delicate lady's breath that cannot be sullied by mocking or concrit, can't you? :)

[kefiraahava.livejournal.com]

Ah, thank you for the explanation. Though I don't quite get how some people whinge that it's "just fun" and therefore grammar and spelling and intelligibility shouldn't count, I admit that could very well be me.

I should go read Joanna Russ' =How to Suppress Women's Writing= again. I seem to dimly recall some glorious slashing to bits of the delicate lady's breath types...*evil grin*

[mistressrenet.livejournal.com]

Well, it's me too, so I can't explain it well, I'm afraid! XD

Is that a good book, then? I heard it cited once by a woman who was using it as an answer to every question (you know, rather than quoting it or coming up with facts), so I had a bad impression of it.

[kefiraahava.livejournal.com]

I grokked that it was you too, somehow.*grin*

It's a good book, especially on the historical litcrit interwoven with sf litcrit/reactions to women writers. The copyright is 1983 and thus I think some of the trends in feminist litcrit have made portions of it *less* true than they were, but skimming it over again...

Yeah, it's good. And there's an interesting point in it, skimming it with this thread in mind. Russ has been discussing the work in progress with a friend and saying she's making an assumption that no woman wrote in English prior to about 1600. The friend cautions her not to make that assumption and winds up saying "Women always write in the vernacular."

"Not strictly true," Russ goes on to say, "and yet it explains a lot....In the vernacular, it's hard to be 'classic,' to be smooth, to be perfect....Minority art, vernacular art, is marginal art. Only on the margins does growth occur."

I wonder if that original poster Nea responded to had something like this in mind, as in fanfic = vernacular art. Granted, I don't think Russ is saying grammar/spelling/intelligibility shouldn't count in the vernacular, but...

Damn. Now I'll have to reread the whole book. Sleep, who needs sleep anyway?*grin*

[mistressrenet.livejournal.com]

Well, I think the rules are looser in the vernacular generally, and in fanfiction. I mean, if there really are people who are dissuaded forever from writing fanfiction on the internet because of criticism, they're a small minority at best-- otherwise the horrible bashing communities wouldn't be so busy! And fanfiction breaks the rules in a lot of ways just by existing-- the use of canon characters in decidedly non-canon ways, the use of role-playing games and journals for storytelling-- it's definitely marginal art in a lot of ways that don't include grammar/spelling/intelligiblity. I think it's a part of the stupidity original post, for sure-- 'we're supposed to be banding together and supporting each other out here on the fringes, dammit!'

Hope you enjoy the reread. I added the book to my wishlist so I won't forget it.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

I remember when that book came out. Joanna Russ was one of the professors at my college. (And this is why I don't own said book - I was an impoverished college student at the time.)

I'm not sure what the original poster had in mind regarding art or feminisim, but Mistress Renet has done a good job of explaining the difference between the species of fanfic authors.

Speaking of books but heading off topic - I have an antique "The Jewish Cookbook" with marginalia and stuff stuffed into it that I think I'm going to copy a few recipes from and dump. Do you want it before I get goy all over it?

[kefiraahava.livejournal.com]

Cool! Did you take any classes with her?

And sure, if you're just going to dump the cookbook otherwise, I'll take it...she said, chortling over "get goy all over it."

[neadods.livejournal.com]

I might have, but at this late date, I don't remember! And yes, I do plan on "just dumping" it after I copy the bread recipes, so I'll set it aside until we can get together.

[booraven22.livejournal.com]

Got here by way of kradical

After watching this wank explode all over LJ, especially in the LOTRips community, I just wanted to let you know yours is the best rant/response I've seen.

Word, sister!

Am friending you, if that's okay. Always can use more eloquent and literate people on my FList!

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Be my guest, I'm flattered! Fair warning - I'm not always this interesting, though. :>

[neutronjockey.livejournal.com]

And I arrived here by way of suricattus . And now I must duck, and run, and continue my Neanderthalic keyboard vomiting... that was humbling? Thank you?
-=Jeff=-

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Hey, no less an author than Ray Bradbury said that the process of writing was to vomit in the keyboard every morning and clean up every night!

[neutronjockey.livejournal.com]

You have very much been friended, thank you.
-=Jeff=-

[shawan-7.livejournal.com]

For some reason I'm taken back to the days of early Swars fandom when the newsletters printed anonymous reviews of zines. And, because they could be held responsible, the reviewers were free to use their power as payback for any small slight; and the blood and tears flowed. After a year or so, the newsletter mistress put an end to the anonymous reviews, and made them come out in public. A couple went pro rather than face the people they'd been knifing -- their friends. By going pro, they left their former fan friends behind.

On the Internet everyone has the illusion of anonymity, and therefore, feel free to be as cruel as they please (in the guise of helpfulness.) Hey, you never see the face of the person you just hurt, do you? "Words can't hurt." And when asked: "That wasn't me -- it was cousin It who got to my computer." (Riggghhhht!)

If it seems that the writer doesn't give a damn for honest feedback in the first place -- I'm sure not going to write to them any!

Can you tell I don't read much Netfic? Like Nea says: there's too much pokeweed for me to want to waste time going through to find gold.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

I do see a difference between the anonymous reviews of SWars and fandom wank. The anon reviews could be kind, if rarely, and were an attempt to influence all of fandom, and there was no rebuttal.

Fandom wank, on the other hand, is the MST3K of fandom. You know going in that they're going to make fun of things, you know who most of them are, and you know what's going on. I've also seen people take the wankers on if they feel that the harrassment is unwarranted; there is a built-in defense mechanism. Two even, the second being writing something decent enough that it doesn't get picked on.

[shawan-7.livejournal.com]

I have been musing on this all day, and I think part of my frustration comes with not having seen the rips on Fandom Wank. All I have to go on is what you posted above.

I can only assume then that Fandom Wank either ripped this fandom and the protester responded to that; or that the protestor went off and then Fandom Wank ripped her a new one, and she went off again. Was the story found by someone and posted to be torn apart on Fandom Wank (who I'm coming to think is full of nothing but trolls who like to hurt kittens (most kittens need some schooling but being bludgeoned?) Hey, everyone likes to see an occasional hanging, right?)

Uh, no, the anon reviews were NOT kind most of the time; most of them were payback whether to fawn over the Big Name Fans/Writers or to take down others, and were power plays. It's not like today where there are so many avenues, you have a chance of going somewhere else.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

If you follow the original link to the Book of Fandom, you'll end up on fandom wank. As far as I can tell, the process was - they ripped up something poorly written in her fandom. The original author found out, had a fit, and the original rant was written as a rebuttal. Fandom wank then ripped up the rant, in the process writing the hilarious Book of Fandom, Elaine mentioned it on her LJ, and that's how I got into it.

As for nothing but trolls who like to hurt kittens - eh. There's an awful lot of crap out there, and the temptation to bash it is irresistable. That's how wank got started - they built a playpen for it and made it a rule *not* to grind the original author's face in it. So it's not like they're out there skeet-shooting tender young things for the joy of saying "pull! *blam*"

I've got a different perspective for a bunch of reasons. I don't have a history I'm bringing to the table. I don't see fandom wank as being a powerplay of any kind... they're setting themselves up as arbitrars, yes, but only amongst themselves, not trying to make powerplays within a fandom for their own greater glory/power trip. I see the hazing of substandard writing as a hazing that all we authors went through and survived, so I have little sympathy with someone else trying to get out from a ritual that we have all shared. And I see the puncturing of egos and/or pretention as a public service... which is why I did it myself.

Heck, the original post was classic fandom wank, although I don't hang out on that community. I saw something that I thought merited a boot in the butt, I gave it the kick, I let my friends see said butt-kicking, and I didn't go smack the original author across the chops. (Which is fairly two-faced of me, admittedly...) It's the same thing they do. So I'm hardly going to see it as wrong if I'm equally guilty...

[shawan-7.livejournal.com]

No, when I mentioned power-plays, I was referring to the anons in Swars many years ago. Nothing to do with today's battle.

I just went over and checked the Fandom Wank link (thanks for pointing it out) and.... shrug. Well, everyone there is very clever and snide. Reminds me a lot of Wonkette -- fluffy & insider cruel. Whatever. I still think that dragging someone's fic in to make fun of it so you look "clever", is being nasty.

Hazing is cruelty (that's why many college ban it.) I sure didn't enjoy being the target of the skeet-shooting and you didn't either. (By the way, readers, she and I have been good friends for a couple of decades so we know where the bodies are buried.)

But, yeah, it is occasionally fun to be intentionally cruel because so often (pompous) people deserve it. One has to pull up the better angels of your nature and suggest (if you want to take the time) how something might be made better rather than just mocking the kittens. And who has the time? If I can't go throught the pokeweed to find the roses, I sure am not going to waste energy being kind.

Someday there HAS to be a panel at MWC on how to give comments/feedback w/o giving offense -- how to turn down a story -- how to write a LoC (the lost art.)

I'm not trying to make you feel guilty, or retreat. I rather liked your rant -- you said it was PMS-related but I thought it was just classic and intelligently written. I just thought I'd put in a different POV.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

I just thought I'd put in a different POV.

Which is absolutely fair. I'm listening, I'm just not entirely agreeing. While the hazing hurt like hell, like many learning experiences, in hindsight I see the purpose even while at the time I curled up in a corner reeling, writhing, and fainting in coils. And it does serve a purpose - being determined not to get razzed again was equal to the egoboo of praise that molded me into an author who could write well.

But I'm also honest enough to admit that were the shoe on the other foot - were she being ripped for a rant I agreed with - I'd be right with you!

Someday there HAS to be a panel at MWC on how to give comments/feedback w/o giving offense

THAT is an excellent idea, and I'll suggest it when they throw the topics open. Wanna be on it?

[lexin.livejournal.com]

Well said.