A TW vs. DW morality question

[neadods]

T3, Who-Daily: lj user="neadods"> a href="http://neadods.livejournal.com/705917.html">has a TW vs. DW moral question (Spoilers for Journey's End)

A DW vs TW morality question: What is more of an assault - the Doctor wiping Donna's memories over her protests or Jack's/Torchwood's reliance on retcon?

[Poll #1218803]

Me, I think Jack is the one who is committing assault, plain and simple. Because he doesn't want to answer questions, or because of "the rules" which he cites but never explains, he whips out the retcon all the time, drugging people against their knowledge and then (in the case of Gwen) even sending in his team to erase computer records. We know retcon is considered a punishment, cleanup operation, and "retirement program" all in one - and note that the only other person who casually wiped people's memories was the villain from Dalek in Who S1.

Although Donna was protesting and definitely didn't want to lose her memories, the Doctor did not act for his own convenience or pleasure. He left Donna alone until such time as it became clear that her health/life was in question - at which point, her brains were becoming so scrambled that she was no longer capable of giving informed consent anyway.

By traveling with the Doctor, Donna had put her life in his hands. With her life in danger, he rescued her again.

And the more I talk about this online, the more confident I become that Donna can regain her awesome without either memories or Doctor. It was all *her* between Runaway Bride and Partners in Crime - all that growth, all that planning, all that accomplishment. That came from within *her,* while she lived *on Earth,* without the Doctor's input at all.

So, no... even if Donna is never un-fobwatched (because that is how I really see it), I don't feel that she is better off dead, that she is left without any hope of regaining her personal growth, or even that the Doctor did her wrong.

x-posted without poll to marriedonmars

And yet another fic rec from the tsunami coming out of the finale reactions: ionlylurkhere's utterly perfect The Moment Has Been Prepared For. Now this ought to be canon!

Comments

[tempestsarekind.livejournal.com]

My problem with the ending of the episode is not that I don't believe Donna will never grow without the Doctor; I just think this is one of those times when it shouldn't be left to the viewer to hope that the appropriate future happens for her. I wrote about this a little in my journal, but it would have been easy to hint at Donna's future in some way, only that wouldn't have been Tragic Enough or something. We've been seeing her realize her potential all season--why not leave her on an up note, showing us that she'll do it all over again? I do have to ask why that's left to us to do, and not something included in the episode itself.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

I do have to ask why that's left to us to do, and not something included in the episode itself.

Because Rusty has a thing about thinking nobody in their right mind would consider leaving the Doctor. (Sorry about the spam, but I just posted a huge post on how 8 out of 10 companions were dumped for one reason or another.)

[tempestsarekind.livejournal.com]

No worries--new posts are good!

It's just frustrating--because even if she wouldn't *leave* the Doctor, that's no reason Rusty can't show her beginning again. Except that he likes sad endings, even when they're not wholly justified?

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Except, I think that he sees this as a sad ending, and cannot conceive that maybe half his audience wants to see her getting the chance to begin again.

Or, like much of his treatment of Martha, he seems to think that implication is just as good as saying.

[tempestsarekind.livejournal.com]

That makes *me* sad, that he might see this ending as sad! It's not happy, certainly, but if humans really are as extraordinary as the Doctor believes they are, then there ought to be some hope for Donna mixed in with the forcible separation.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

The *Doctor* believes they are. Not too sure that *Rusty* believes they are.

[missbaxter.livejournal.com]

"The *Doctor* believes they are. Not too sure that *Rusty* believes they are."

Does anyone else find the show's tension between the idea of 'ordinary' humans and 'extraordinary' humans (i.e. companions) really, really annoying? The Doctor said in Season 3 that all humans are extraordinary, but there's a definite hierarchy in the way he picks his companions -i.e. not one of the 'ordinary' humans in 'Midnight' were shown to be potential companion material. Any thoughts on what the required qualities to turn an otherwise ordinary human into an extraordinary companion are?

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Does anyone else find the show's tension between the idea of 'ordinary' humans and 'extraordinary' humans (i.e. companions) really, really annoying?

IMMENSELY! At least every now and then Nine could sell the idea that he liked people as people, but Ten never does.