On writing women characters

[neadods]

The authors I internet-stalk have been doing a fair amount of discussing how to write women as characters at the moment. And if there was one thing that I'd love to get into the conversation, it is this:

Stop using tits as a shorthand for femininity. More than that, stop using how women dress their upper bodies as a shorthand for how they feel about their sexuality. (I'm looking at you, Byatt. You should have known better.)

Here's a handy hint for the Y-enabled authors reading this blog:

Women don't think about their breasts very often.

Seriously, once you've grown them, figured out your overall dressing style and found a bra you like, the whole boob thing is pretty much a done deal. In general day-to-day life, the overall chestal concern isn't "how do I feel about my tits?" It's "is this bra going to behave?" And I don't mean "Will it lift, separate, and present my apparatus to advantage?" I mean "18 Hour Comfort my ass; this damned thing's riding up/falling down/digging in/falling off my shoulders a-fucking-gain!" (Spend a day in a dance belt, boys, and see how long it takes you to stop caring what's in it and start obsessing on comfort.)

And besides... was the gender of your characters changed, would you really be writing things like "Jack dressed to the left to show his confidence today"?

Even the girliest of girls is going to think about her hair and nails more than her mammaries. After all, the first two are in plain sight at all times, while her breasts aren't. Boobs don't require a lot of maintenance, after all. They don't need to be filed, trimmed, or polished, and are far less likely to kink in odd directions if you sleep on them wet.

Oh, things are different if the scene is specifically about sexuality. (Scott Wentworth once wrote with remarkable surprise that both his leading ladies adjusted their bodices while singing the line "weapons ready" in Enter the Guardsman. What was he expecting?) But on a day to day basis? When other people aren't making a big deal out of them?

We. Don't. Care.

I just had to get that off my chest.

Comments

[lyricwrites.livejournal.com]

A few more random things that Y-enabled authors (I like that phrase) should know:

Underwires were invented by Satan.

Women who have big breasts and do action-y stuff are going to want a sports bra or something else that keeps 'em from boinging painfully. Unless they're caught unexpectedly by the action-y stuff. Then they might well end up running from zombies with one arm over their chest.

The aforementioned fact doesn't mean that busty women can't be action heroes.

If a woman takes pains with her makeup, it is likely to be more than just lipstick. There's foundation, blush, lipstick, lip-liner, eyeliner, eyeshadow, and mascara. (Leave off the eyeshadow for anyone whose eyelids just disappear into their head, like me.) Models and movie stars are usually women who take pains with their makeup, at least in official public appearances.

That being said, there are plenty of women who don't give a rat's ass about makeup.

. . . it seems like most of my advice comes down to "know your characters as individuals." I think I'll leave it at that.

[honorh.livejournal.com]

Regarding underwires: I have never met a single soft-cup bra that offers anywhere near the support I need. And I have tried a lot of them. Closest I've ever come is a few sports bras, but they invariably give me uniboob. I really wish I could find a soft-cup bra that worked for me, because, having a smallish frame and huge boobs, underwire often pokes me in the pits.

[lyricwrites.livejournal.com]

It may be a peculiarity of my size that makes underwires not work for me, but based on past conversations, I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in my distaste.

Getting somewhat back on topic—yes, guys, when women talk about their breasts, this is generally what it sounds like. In-depth discussion of support, plus possibly a recommendation for finding bras that do not require you to take out a second mortgage.

[honorh.livejournal.com]

Oh, I've met plenty of women who hate underwire with a fiery passion. The caveat is that none of them were anywhere near as well-endowed as I am. Every woman I've met who exceeds D has the same complaint about soft-cup bras: Comfortable, but inadequate.

And oh, how I envy women who can go into any store that sells lingerie and find bras! When I was slimmer, I could buy my bras at Nordstrom, because they were the only brick-and-mortar store that carried my size. Quality brands, too. You paid through the nose for them, but they'd last for years if you cared for them. Nowadays, I buy from Linda's. Still pay through the nose, but they're quality.

Unfortunately, when you're my size, you end up in a double bind: My everyday bra is comfortable, but doesn't offer the best support or shape. My good bras make me look amazing (they bring the girls back up where they were when I was in my twenties), but I have welts under my arms after a day's wear.

[evil_plotbunny]

I find these Glamorise bras both comfortable and surprisingly supportive. (I also recommend Bare Necessities in general - quick shipping, periodic sales if you get on their list and good customer support).

[neadods.livejournal.com]

You're totally not alone; I hate underwires. In fact, I hate any bra that isn't cotton, so I'm really a bit up the creek vis a vis selection.

[inamac.livejournal.com]

A few years ago a couple of British inventors (male) tackled the problem of underwired bras (both from the comfort and washability POV). They came up with a bra including a curved silicon 'form' that provided support and stability without digging in, and was machine washable.

I have one somewhere. Unfortunately it's too bulky to be really comfortable.

But there must be some viable modern technical solution...

[neadods.livejournal.com]

In my copious free time, I want to start trying to merge some of the corset-making shortcuts as bra-making shortcuts. For instance, you can make a corset that's easier to wash by using cable ties instead of corset stays.

(That said, I wonder if ringsteel stays might make for a more comfortable underwire than the standard steel U.)

[inamac.livejournal.com]

The Victorians used (hemp) cording as well as steel or whalebone to strengthen their corsets - I have been wondering whether to try replacing the (missing) underwires from some of my old bras with cording to see whether this works.

Am still rather annoyed that the steampunk corset I ordered for Eastercon has still not arrived.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Underwires vs soft cups is a very personal thing. Me, I rather like the uniboob look - gives me great cleavage if I'm going to be showing it off - and the way underwires move as I breathe creep me out.

That said, I'm thisclose to bailing on the whole commercial bra thing and making my own. I'm already between chest wall sizes and my tits are different by a cup. Even if I go for a $400 handwash only German-engineered Turbotitatron, I'm not going to find one that fits both breasts!

[honorh.livejournal.com]

"German-engineered Turbotitatron"--hee! I think I need one of those.

[neotoma.livejournal.com]

Underwires were invented by Satan.

Not in my experience. As far as I can tell, soft cups were invented as a torture device, since they give almost no support and make my back ache. Properly fitted underwires, otoh, are comfy enough to wear all day -- and very expensive, because I have to get mine from Bravissimo, since almost no one in the USA carries my size.

[honorh.livejournal.com]

Try Linda's Online. They cater to us larger-busted ladies, and the prices are about on par with finding a really good bra in a brick-and-mortar store. I basically order my bras exclusively from them.

[neotoma.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the link. They carry Elomi, which I've only seen at the local Nordstroms, and after some frankly stupid advice ("Since we don't have your size in stock, you can just go up a back size!"... only if I want an ill-fitting bra that will give me a backache in ten minutes, thanks) I don't want to patronize them.

Unfortunately, though, Linda's Online charges $10 more per bra than Bravissimo for the brand that I actually like, so even with the shipping fee, it's cheaper for me to buy from the UK. :(

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Speak to me about Bravissimo and how to measure for UK sizes. Because otherwise, I'm about to start making my own!

[neotoma.livejournal.com]

Plus Size Bra Info has the best measuring method and a very useful brand size equivalency chart.

Bravissimo carries Panache (I like the Tango), Freya, Fantasie of England, along with a house brand that does very well for many people. Do read the reviews of each bra, because if there is any weirdness in sizing or fit, (it's tight or loose, better for round or oval breasts, etc) that's where the information will be, in customer comments -- rather like Zappos that way.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I need to check 'em out.

[lyricwrites.livejournal.com]

Possibly just me, then, because I have not only acquired welts from underwires, I have had them poke through the cloth and stab me. I do buy bras with underwires, but then I perform immediate surgery with a pair of scissors.

[stephani673.livejournal.com]

"I have had them poke through the cloth and stab me"

Oh, I hate that. I was up to a B cup in junior high, a C and then D by high school, and I'm small enough that they just look obscene.

Strangely enough, the poking-through problem stopped once I hit DD.

[neotoma.livejournal.com]

If you're getting welts and pokes from underwires, the bra isn't the right size - it's not unusual to wear a slightly different size in underwires vs soft cups. The underwires should lie flat against your body, with the join between the cups flat against your sternum.

[lyricwrites.livejournal.com]

Something about my body shape seems to make that very difficult to manage, but I'll keep it in mind the next time I go bra shopping. (Which won't be for another year or so, I hope. Darn things cost a king's ransom, so I wear them until they fall apart.)

[neotoma.livejournal.com]

The Bravissimo Perfect Fit Guide has a video showing what a poor vs good fit that might help you figure out what to look for next time you go shopping.

[lyricwrites.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

[neadods.livejournal.com]

If a woman takes pains with her makeup, it is likely to be more than just lipstick.

Yeah, what is UP with that? I don't know how many times I've read variations of "She took great pain applying her lipstick." Dude, if you're going to take great pains with the makeup, it's going to be the mascara wand. If you slip with the lipstick, you're not going to BE in great pain!

(Says the woman who refuses to wear makeup.)

Agree with you re: underwires. I've been more comfortable in corsets than underwire bras.