On writing women characters

[neadods]

The authors I internet-stalk have been doing a fair amount of discussing how to write women as characters at the moment. And if there was one thing that I'd love to get into the conversation, it is this:

Stop using tits as a shorthand for femininity. More than that, stop using how women dress their upper bodies as a shorthand for how they feel about their sexuality. (I'm looking at you, Byatt. You should have known better.)

Here's a handy hint for the Y-enabled authors reading this blog:

Women don't think about their breasts very often.

Seriously, once you've grown them, figured out your overall dressing style and found a bra you like, the whole boob thing is pretty much a done deal. In general day-to-day life, the overall chestal concern isn't "how do I feel about my tits?" It's "is this bra going to behave?" And I don't mean "Will it lift, separate, and present my apparatus to advantage?" I mean "18 Hour Comfort my ass; this damned thing's riding up/falling down/digging in/falling off my shoulders a-fucking-gain!" (Spend a day in a dance belt, boys, and see how long it takes you to stop caring what's in it and start obsessing on comfort.)

And besides... was the gender of your characters changed, would you really be writing things like "Jack dressed to the left to show his confidence today"?

Even the girliest of girls is going to think about her hair and nails more than her mammaries. After all, the first two are in plain sight at all times, while her breasts aren't. Boobs don't require a lot of maintenance, after all. They don't need to be filed, trimmed, or polished, and are far less likely to kink in odd directions if you sleep on them wet.

Oh, things are different if the scene is specifically about sexuality. (Scott Wentworth once wrote with remarkable surprise that both his leading ladies adjusted their bodices while singing the line "weapons ready" in Enter the Guardsman. What was he expecting?) But on a day to day basis? When other people aren't making a big deal out of them?

We. Don't. Care.

I just had to get that off my chest.

Comments

[lagilman]

*sigh* I am having to...educate my current editorial client about the female body, and how to write about it. Gently, and without calling him a 1950's throwback of the non-homage sort.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Oh, dear. Would it help to take a different angle and point out that even the girlie girls think about their hair and nails more than their breasts? On account of the hair and nails are in plain view at all times, whereas the tits aren't.

(Also, the tits are much less likely to kink in odd directions if you sleep on 'em wet.)

Okay, I'm digressing. I'm also putting that in the top post because it amuses me.

I don't suppose that using the "would you write about a dick that way" analogy would work?

[nonelvis]

I'm sure you didn't write this entire entry just so you could make that pun at the end, but I still want to applaud. (To be fair, the whole entry deserves applause, too.)

[neadods.livejournal.com]

TBH, this whole post started with the "done deal" sentence; the final line came to me as I was ranting and of course it had to be used!

[redpanda13.livejournal.com]

As others have said, I don't feel the need to fondle my breasts frequently to make sure they're still there. Not sure what it is with some men that they seem to think theirs is going to drop off and has to be checked often.

But if you ever find any 18 (or even 8) hour comfort, do let us all know.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

The yoga bras from Deva are insanely comfortable. As much support as a cooked-spaghetti bridge, but comfortable.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

PS - love the icon!

[lizvogel.livejournal.com]

Not sure what it is with some men that they seem to think theirs is going to drop off and has to be checked often.

On the authority of some of my guy friends: contents shift during transit, as it were, and the parts have to be adjusted lest something pinch or chafe. Not all that different from a woman pulling up her bra straps or tugging her bra down or whatever, which god knows I have to do every time I wear one of the damn things....

[redpanda13.livejournal.com]

Had to come back to report on Tits in the News: the new Titanic 3D is being censored in China.

"Considering the vivid 3D effects, we fear that viewers may reach out their hands for a touch and thus interrupt other people's viewing," read a statement from China's State Administration of Radio, Film and Television. "We've decided to cut off the nudity scenes."

"I've been waiting almost 15 years, and not for the 3D icebergs," wrote one disappointed Chinese man on an Internet forum.

(How do you say in Chinese, "Get a life, fanboy"?)

[neadods.livejournal.com]

I've always felt the nudity scenes distracted from the overall movie, but that's still... wow. I'm reminded of the time I heard about the pop-up Kama Sutra and one of my friends sourly said "nothing you expect to pop up does." (Was that you?)

[big-wired.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I don't think that women think that much about their breasts in the same manner that men think about their testicles. At the most it's about how comfortable some underwear is and that's it.

It's sad that you're even having to say this at all. It's like there's still this persistant idea that women are these strange creatures whose minds will forever be hard to fathom for the male mind. ;p

[neadods.livejournal.com]

It's like there's still this persistant idea that women are these strange creatures whose minds will forever be hard to fathom for the male mind. ;p

I know! But even some women fall into the trap - Byatt's Possession annoyed the crap out of me by spending lots of time discussing not how the women dressed overall, but how they *covered/revealed their tits* in specific and what it meant about them.

[honorh.livejournal.com]

I actually do think about my breasts fairly often. That's because they're huge and often inconvenient. Especially when I'm exercising. When women do think about their breasts a lot, overall? There's an issue there, either physical or emotional.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

I want to argue that thinking of them as inconvenient due to specific physical reasons is still different than thinking of them as inconvenient just for being breasts -- much less the whole "tit size = sexual drive" trope that needs to die a horrible death.

[lyricwrites.livejournal.com]

A few more random things that Y-enabled authors (I like that phrase) should know:

Underwires were invented by Satan.

Women who have big breasts and do action-y stuff are going to want a sports bra or something else that keeps 'em from boinging painfully. Unless they're caught unexpectedly by the action-y stuff. Then they might well end up running from zombies with one arm over their chest.

The aforementioned fact doesn't mean that busty women can't be action heroes.

If a woman takes pains with her makeup, it is likely to be more than just lipstick. There's foundation, blush, lipstick, lip-liner, eyeliner, eyeshadow, and mascara. (Leave off the eyeshadow for anyone whose eyelids just disappear into their head, like me.) Models and movie stars are usually women who take pains with their makeup, at least in official public appearances.

That being said, there are plenty of women who don't give a rat's ass about makeup.

. . . it seems like most of my advice comes down to "know your characters as individuals." I think I'll leave it at that.

[honorh.livejournal.com]

Regarding underwires: I have never met a single soft-cup bra that offers anywhere near the support I need. And I have tried a lot of them. Closest I've ever come is a few sports bras, but they invariably give me uniboob. I really wish I could find a soft-cup bra that worked for me, because, having a smallish frame and huge boobs, underwire often pokes me in the pits.

[alizarin-nyc.livejournal.com]

I loathe my breasts, in the sense that they make me endure uncomfortable undergarments and are yet one more way I am reminded of how old I am - in this case, by the length that they sag sans bra.

Otherwise, I do not think about them. My husband, on the other hand, cannot get over them, and is incredibly tiresome on the subject.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

The day I realized I no longer passed the pencil test was a huge one for me - bigger than discovering my first gray hair. Gray you can dye; tits you have to deal with!

Re: uncomfortable undergarments: one of the radio stations here has a call-in thing, and one day the question was "What do you take off first when you get home from work?" The (male) DJ obviously expected "shoes" or "tie" or maybe even "hose" -- what he got, and it freaked him out, was a huge preponderance of women calling in and saying "MY BRA!"

[songfire3.livejournal.com]

I'm probably in the minority here, but I actually do think about breasts pretty often. XD

And not just my own, either (though I wish mine were smaller on a daily basis and I totally agree with the [)"is this bra going to behave?" And I don't mean "Will it lift, separate, and present my apparatus to advantage?" I mean "18 Hour Comfort my ass; this damned thing's riding up/falling down/digging in/falling off my shoulders a-fucking-gain!"] part, and of course you are right that tits, or how they are "dressed" should never be used as a handy shortcut to a woman's feelings about sexuality.

All that aside though, I'd be lying if I said I don't love boobs...or notice them. Even if it's not on a day to day basis. But then I'm not a straight woman...

[honorh.livejournal.com]

I've promised myself that, by the time I'm 40, I will have had reduction, or that'll be my 40th birthday present to myself. After all these years, I'm just tired of lugging the things around. And if the surgeon will kindly put them back where they were when I was seventeen, all the better.

P.S. I'm straight, but I totally appreciate a nice rack on a woman.

[zinelady.livejournal.com]

The only time I really noticed my breasts was when I was breastfeeding. Then, they seem to take over your whole life. I went from a 36 B to a 38D.

I enjoyed breastfeeding when I had my second child. I think that was because I knew what I was doing and how I wanted to do it. I ended up breastfeeding for 2 1/2 years. I finally gave up when Crystal tugged on my shirt in church (while John was preaching) and said, "I want Mommy juice." LOL I figured it was time to wean her.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

"I want Mommy juice."

O.O!!!!!

I've got a friend who frankly has engineering problems enough with her breasts; the changes as she entered the final stages of pregnancy were making her crazy.

[roobarb.livejournal.com]

laughed so much reading thei I cried, My Mum who lives next door came round to see what was going on and I read your post out to her, she laughed too as we come from generations of well-endowed women who find the inconvenience and weight of them frustrating and rarely sexy. We loved "Jack dressed to the left to show his confidence today", beautiful LOL

I came here from the post by sarahtales about Miss Marple, Now I can't check and after all that laughter I've forgotten why but I love this and have added you on the basis of this, feel free to see my journal and if you'd like to add me in return

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Glad you enjoyed it! This is a very random blog, I'll warn you right now.

[veronica-milvus.livejournal.com]

LOL - you are so right!

[neadods.livejournal.com]

I own bras but try not to wear them, because they are all made by Satan and designed to irritate, rub and generally infuriate.

Amen!

You'd still think about boobs a lot, but not in a sexual way; trust me on this.

Which is the overall point of the post - guys write about breasts as a symbol of how the woman feels about herself or presents herself or whatever. And we're all "yeah, right. They're just there, and often in the way."

[beledibabe.livejournal.com]

Loved this! So very, very true. (And I think I'll have a character decide which side to dress on as an indicator of his index of confidence just in order to freak out the male members of my critique group. ::g::)

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Doooooo iiiiiiit! And then tell me all about it!

"Gosh darn it, I'm smart, I'm good looking, and people like me! I'll only stuff in the small potato today, I'm feeling so great!"

[calenorn.livejournal.com]

Wait. Left means confidence?

LEFT?!?!?!

Crap! Now they tell me.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

*giggle*snort*

[tchwrtr.livejournal.com]

You had me at the start, but the final line put me right over.

I'm looking at 40, and the no-longer-useful Size G mams on my chest, and I note the permanent dips in my shoulders from the bra straps, and the curvature that is creeping into my back, and so heck yeah, I think about the tits.

Some days I just want to cut them off.

As it is, I'm starting to think about a reduction, and if they happen to no longer be halfway to my waist afterwards, I'd not complain.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

We have a mutual friend who's had a reduction; she'd be the best person to talk to about it. She's certainly happy.